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  1. #11
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    Larry

    I have found that Kodachromes are the least responsive to cibachrome, but with that said not a big problem

    I have done colour masking in the past on cibas and Ra4 prints for colour casts . ie brides white dress which prints blue on RA 4 can be easily fixed with a filter on your dodging and burning tool, basically changing the balance for that specific area.
    We are daily doing this with PS now for our Lambda colour prints.
    As well making a silver mask with separation filters on pan masking film can be effective in boosting areas of local colour relative to the overall balance. As PE suggests this is quite possible.
    I would think Donald Miller would be a good starting reference guy for masking as I believe he has good reference starting points. Ilford had old manuals of silver masking techniques in the heyday of Cibachrome printing, There was a guy out of California *Pace* who seemed to produce manuals on some of these techniques.
    As well there was a guy out of Kansas City , who did a lot of complicated colour masking on a Lisle Camera , preceeding PS.
    I worked in this field for years on a Lisle Camera and we were required to know how to do all levels of complex masking, Unfortunately , I did not keep my working books on these proceedures so I can't pass any pertinent info to you.
    I would think though you should be able to produce all kinds of complicated unsharp masks on your LVT unit using scan to PS to LVT recorder???
    I would start this way as trying to do this in an enlarger with seperation filters would be harder than using the tools that I understand you already have at your disposal.
    Bob

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5791
    Thanks very much for the repies - very helpful indeed.

    pentaxuser, thanks for the offer of the booklet, I woudl be interested if you let me know how you would like to play it.

    Interesting about the instructions for the older kit.

    Thanks,

    Matt
    Simply pm me with your address and I'll post it to you - no charge as I have two. Be aware that it is only a 7 page booklet so very basic step by step and covers the P-30 process. Its date is 1986.

    The 56 page manual covers things much more deeply in terms of faults and filtration but I only have the one. Photocopying even in B&W at 10p per page would be about £5.60 plus postage but you'd lose the colour photos which demonstrate effects. Not every page has a colour photo but about 18 pages do. It covers thing beside processing such as sandwich slides, photo montage etc. If you didn't want these, the photocopying could be cut down.

    I'd seriously look for a manual in the library before embarking on photocopied manual but it could be done.

    Pentaxuser

  3. #13

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    Contrary to what others seem to find I've found Kodachrome to be quite a good match to Ilfochrome, especially when it comes to colour crossover, which coincidently seems to match with Ctein's view also. If you compare the characteristic curves of Ilfochrome and Kodachrome they appear to match more closely than Ilfochrome and the E6 films. Of course it's a moot point since Kodak in Australia dropped 35mm Kodachrome more than a year ago and the other formats long before. Contrast can be a problem for some slides but I've found a way around that for the most part by using my own developers and adjusting the exposure/bleach times. The E6 films I've used all print similarly on Ilfochrome after taking into account the dynamic range of the scene/film. Without resorting to masking or chemical/exposure adjustments you'll probably find the lower contrast films (eg RAP) easiest to print.

    Roger.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ras351
    Contrary to what others seem to find I've found Kodachrome to be quite a good match to Ilfochrome, especially when it comes to colour crossover, which coincidently seems to match with Ctein's view also. If you compare the characteristic curves of Ilfochrome and Kodachrome they appear to match more closely than Ilfochrome and the E6 films. Of course it's a moot point since Kodak in Australia dropped 35mm Kodachrome more than a year ago and the other formats long before. Contrast can be a problem for some slides but I've found a way around that for the most part by using my own developers and adjusting the exposure/bleach times. The E6 films I've used all print similarly on Ilfochrome after taking into account the dynamic range of the scene/film. Without resorting to masking or chemical/exposure adjustments you'll probably find the lower contrast films (eg RAP) easiest to print.

    Roger.
    Roger, the problem that I referred to was the fact that the color balance shift between Kodachrome and other E6 films is bigger than the change needed between all E6 films. This is due to the nature of the Kodachrome cyan dye which is very narrow and sharp (pure).

    The characteristic curves of any film wrt Ilfochrome is not especially significant in the face of the dye hues of that film.

    PE

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Roger, the problem that I referred to was the fact that the color balance shift between Kodachrome and other E6 films is bigger than the change needed between all E6 films. This is due to the nature of the Kodachrome cyan dye which is very narrow and sharp (pure).

    The characteristic curves of any film wrt Ilfochrome is not especially significant in the face of the dye hues of that film.

    PE
    I should have been more specific and said to compare the spectral dye density curves of the film with the spectral sensitivity curves of Ilfochrome. I think we're both saying the same thing. It's a pity Ilford don't offer an alternate version of the paper which is more tuned towards E6 films.

    For those curious it's often helpful to photograph a grayscale onto your film of choice and print the result on Ilfochrome. You'll then be able to see what sort of colour crossover you may have to deal with and it's also easier to tune the filter pack towards a neutral colour.

    Roger.

  6. #16
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
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    Glad to read that the 5.3 pack is available worldwide except countries listed in the following table:

    [table start]
    ITALY
    [end of table]
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
    (Tristan Tzara, 1922)

  7. #17
    davetravis's Avatar
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    Hey Matt5791,
    Do you know how you will be processing the exposed paper?
    Drums in water bath? Roller transport? Drums with "drift-by" temp control?

  8. #18
    L Gebhardt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Carnie
    Larry

    I have found that Kodachromes are the least responsive to cibachrome, but with that said not a big problem

    I have done colour masking in the past on cibas and Ra4 prints for colour casts . ie brides white dress which prints blue on RA 4 can be easily fixed with a filter on your dodging and burning tool, basically changing the balance for that specific area.
    We are daily doing this with PS now for our Lambda colour prints.
    As well making a silver mask with separation filters on pan masking film can be effective in boosting areas of local colour relative to the overall balance. As PE suggests this is quite possible.
    I would think Donald Miller would be a good starting reference guy for masking as I believe he has good reference starting points. Ilford had old manuals of silver masking techniques in the heyday of Cibachrome printing, There was a guy out of California *Pace* who seemed to produce manuals on some of these techniques.
    As well there was a guy out of Kansas City , who did a lot of complicated colour masking on a Lisle Camera , preceeding PS.
    I worked in this field for years on a Lisle Camera and we were required to know how to do all levels of complex masking, Unfortunately , I did not keep my working books on these proceedures so I can't pass any pertinent info to you.
    I would think though you should be able to produce all kinds of complicated unsharp masks on your LVT unit using scan to PS to LVT recorder???
    I would start this way as trying to do this in an enlarger with seperation filters would be harder than using the tools that I understand you already have at your disposal.
    Bob
    Thanks, I think I now have an idea on how to do color masking. Much simpler than I had made it out to be in my head.

    I can use the lightjet to create corrected transparencies, but then they aren't entirely analog so I couldn't sell them in the APUG gallery. Plus I want to understand the traditional ways as well.

  9. #19
    RH Designs's Avatar
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    Matt -

    Abebooks is listing several books on Cibachrome (Ilfochrome's old name) at reasonable prices eg "The Complete Guide to Cibachrome Printing" and "Focal Guide to Cibachrome". Go to www.abebooks.co.uk and enter "cibachrome" as a keyword.

    I haven't done any for some time, but liked the results very much especially on the high-gloss polyester-based material.

    I used to find Kodachrome originals the easiest to print from as they seemed to exhibit much less colour cross-over than for example Velvia, but the newer Ilfochrome materials may be different.

    Good luck!

    Regards
    Richard

  10. #20
    Matt5791's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH Designs
    Matt -

    Abebooks is listing several books on Cibachrome (Ilfochrome's old name) at reasonable prices eg "The Complete Guide to Cibachrome Printing" and "Focal Guide to Cibachrome". Go to www.abebooks.co.uk and enter "cibachrome" as a keyword.

    I haven't done any for some time, but liked the results very much especially on the high-gloss polyester-based material.

    I used to find Kodachrome originals the easiest to print from as they seemed to exhibit much less colour cross-over than for example Velvia, but the newer Ilfochrome materials may be different.

    Good luck!

    Regards
    Richard
    Thanks very much for the advice Richard. I have recently been reading the book "Way beyond Monochrome" which I believe is written by your business partner - a superb book.

    Getting quite interested in some of your exposure meters!

    Matt

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