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  1. #1
    Matt5791's Avatar
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    Thinking about doing some Ilfochrome printing....

    I want to try some Ilfochrome printing of some of my slides.

    Anything I should know before I start - I have a Jobo drum for processing.

    What I am wondering about is colour balance - presumably there is not much to do here?

    Any hints and tips greatly appreciated

    I see the chemicals kit is quite expensive - anyone know the best prices in the UK?

    Thanks for any help,
    Matt

  2. #2
    Dave Miller's Avatar
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    It's a few years since I used this process, but I remember that the colour balance is taken care of by the filtration factors supplied with the paper. Slight adjustment being required to suit your enlarger. Check out Paterson's chemicals for this process.
    Regards Dave.

    An English Eye


  3. #3
    Dug
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    Hey Matt,

    I have been actively printing Ilfochorome - I have successfully used the new P3.5 kit and found it to be pretty much the same as the P30 kits. I suggest:

    -Get onto the Cafe Ilfopro site and look through the Ilfochrome postings. Be sure to download the UPDATED mixing instructions for the P3.5 kit - the one that comes with the kit may be wrong!

    -The new instructions don't mention doing a 30sec pre-wash with correct temperature (30deg celsius) water. I do it and it certainly doesn't hurt.

    -Get your hands on a couple of different documents:
    1) The old P30 kit instructions tell you how to recycle chemicals (reuse with a 50-50 mixure of fresh and used chemicals for each step). This also works well with the p3.5 kit even though it is not mentioned. Using this technique I get 20-24 8X10 prints per liter rather than the usual 13.
    2) There is an out of print book called "The Complete Guide to Cibachrome Printing" ISBN 0-89586-176-3. It has some great information, even through it is named after the earlier (but pretty much the same) process called Cibachrome.
    3) Ilford's Masking Guide used to be free for the asking at the Ilford site. See if you can still request one.

    I have found it unfortunate that the new P3.5 kit instructions and the documentation I see around the Ilfochrome process is not as "Beginner Friendly" as in the past. I want to start pulling together some documents to post here (like the P 30 kit instructions) so we can get folks interested in the Ilfochrome process (and keep Ilford producing it!).

    Let me know if you have other questions!

    Doug

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5791
    I want to try some Ilfochrome printing of some of my slides.

    Anything I should know before I start - I have a Jobo drum for processing.

    What I am wondering about is colour balance - presumably there is not much to do here?

    Any hints and tips greatly appreciated

    I see the chemicals kit is quite expensive - anyone know the best prices in the UK?

    Thanks for any help,
    Matt
    Matt Saw this thread and had a look at my booklets. When I bought my darkroom kit secondhand I got two booklets entitled "Ilford Cibachrome-A. A Simple step by step guide to making high quality colour prints direct from slides" It is only a 7 page guide but as I have two, you are welcome to one, free of charge.

    I also have the complete 56 page guide which covers the Process P-30. Unfortunately I have only one copy of this. It may be possible to obtain another copy elsewhere and one which covers the new chemicals described above.

    If all else fails I could photocopy it at my local library. It charges 10p per page in B&W. Not sure about colour copies which would be better. However not cheap either way.

    Anyway let me know if you want either the small booklet or a copy of the 56 page one which looks very comprehensive. I say looks because to date I have only done colour neg processing and printing not chromes.

    Pentaxuser

  5. #5
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5791
    What I am wondering about is colour balance - presumably there is not much to do here?
    It has been a number of years since I did my own Cibachrome, but I never found this to be the case (I used a LPL 4500II with color head). I found the basic filter pack to be a good starting place, but I almost always had to make a couple of prints to get it right. Maybe the new emulsions are better, I don't know.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  6. #6
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    About color balance, I highly recommend getting a set of color viewing filters. I found these much more effective than an analyzer, which I still have, when I was doing color regularly. I'm thinking I should probably spend next summer or some significant amount of time on Ilfochrome printing, just to be sure to get some of my more recent transparencies printed on Ilfochrome while it's still around.

    Just as an aside, I firmly believe that many of the contrast problems that people have with Ilfochrome come from using oversaturated films. When I was doing Cibas some 20 years ago, I generally shot Agfachrome 100, which had more of a pastel look, and it printed well without masking, and the prints have held up quite well.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  7. #7
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ilfochrome is hyper sensitive to the different dyes in different reversal films. Therefore it takes different filter packs for each type of film.

    If you are printing Ilfochromes, you had best stick to one type of film for your work if you want to stick with one pack, otherwise it is trial and error time just as in any other color printing.

    Kodachrome is the biggest outlier. It will usually take more filter pack change than any other film due to the nature of the cyan dye used.

    Best results are obtained with both color and contrast masking. This is due to the unwanted absorption of the dyes in the film and the paper and the high contrast of the pos-pos printing chain. It was not designed for optimum printing. Each of these masks is intended to correct for one of these flaws. They are used routinely in reproduction of slides for magazines, etc...

    PE

  8. #8
    Matt5791's Avatar
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    Thanks very much for the repies - very helpful indeed.

    pentaxuser, thanks for the offer of the booklet, I woudl be interested if you let me know how you would like to play it.

    Interesting about the instructions for the older kit.

    Thanks,

    Matt

  9. #9
    L Gebhardt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer
    Ilfochrome is hyper sensitive to the different dyes in different reversal films. Therefore it takes different filter packs for each type of film.

    If you are printing Ilfochromes, you had best stick to one type of film for your work if you want to stick with one pack, otherwise it is trial and error time just as in any other color printing.

    Kodachrome is the biggest outlier. It will usually take more filter pack change than any other film due to the nature of the cyan dye used.

    Best results are obtained with both color and contrast masking. This is due to the unwanted absorption of the dyes in the film and the paper and the high contrast of the pos-pos printing chain. It was not designed for optimum printing. Each of these masks is intended to correct for one of these flaws. They are used routinely in reproduction of slides for magazines, etc...

    PE
    I know about contrast masking with Ilfochrome, but how do you do color masking? Is this a way to fix the color crossover problems I see with a lot of my prints?

    Do you know which films have the least color crossover problems with Ilfochrome?

    I may be using the term color crossover incorrectly. What I am reffering to is the effect where the shadoes seems to require a different filter pack than the highlights. It seems that if I balance the midtones the highlights go towards cyan and the shadows go slightly red.

  10. #10
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Gebhardt
    I know about contrast masking with Ilfochrome, but how do you do color masking? Is this a way to fix the color crossover problems I see with a lot of my prints?

    Do you know which films have the least color crossover problems with Ilfochrome?

    I may be using the term color crossover incorrectly. What I am reffering to is the effect where the shadoes seems to require a different filter pack than the highlights. It seems that if I balance the midtones the highlights go towards cyan and the shadows go slightly red.
    I don't know which films have the least problem with Ilfochrome.

    You describe crossover perfectly, but there are two problems. Crossover is due to mismatches in the characteristic curves in each layer of the Ilfochrome, or a mismatch induced by their response to the dyes in the film. This can be corrected by masking. This is a form of contrast masking for a given layer only - the one that is crossing over.

    Color masking is another type of masking which corrects when a color is not represented correctly and is built into color negative films. That is the orange color of a negative. In making a color mask for Ilfochromes, you prepare silver masks that correct for the errors in dye hue in the film and in the Ilfochrome.

    So, these can be two separate requirements, or they can be combined depending on the nature and severity of your problem.

    When you build a film and a paper for printing in color, you must closely match the spectral sensitivities of the papers to the dyes in the film. It is much more difficult to do for reversal films which have no color mask and are made for viewing by the human eye. Color negative materials are built for printing and the manufacturers who make the print papers can match the entire system up more easily. Therefore, there is normally better color and less crossover in a neg-pos system than in a pos-pos system.

    Printing pos-pos compresses the scale and yields a 'dupey' picture and that is why it is not common to make pos-pos prints unless they are fixed up with a lot of masking added into the printing process. This includes contrast reduction and color correction masking.

    PE

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