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  1. #11
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fotohuis View Post
    To PE:
    It's seems to be that you're a specialist in film and chemical influences.

    What is exactly the difference between old and new C41 emulsions and the effect of the formalin on it.
    The old magenta coupler required formalin to form the methylene bis coupler to prevent fade and yellowing, but the new couplers do not.

    In addition, the formalin served as a mild bacteriostat and fungicide in the film. This has been argued over here on APUG, but Haist and Mees and James remark on the longevity of formalin in coatings. It hangs around a long time.

    In any event, modern stabilzers have proprietary chemistry to assist stability of the newer films including a biostat property. They also help resist instability problems caused by reduced washing in some processes.

    PE

  2. #12

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    Thanks for your reply.
    So for the film it doesn't matter if you're using a formaline stabilizer on old and new emulsions.

    It's only a discussion for environmental and a health issue.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fotohuis View Post
    Thanks for your reply.
    So for the film it doesn't matter if you're using a formaline stabilizer on old and new emulsions.

    It's only a discussion for environmental and a health issue.
    It does matter in this sense.

    You cannot use the new stabilzer with older films. This has been stated here and is mentioned on the Kodak and Fuji web sites. AFAIK, you can use the old stabilzer with new films as long as the wash time is sufficient, but that is not gospel. I have not gotten any verified information on this.

    PE

  4. #14
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    What is "newer film"? I have some older (5 to 10 years out of date) slide film that is still fine in the freezer. Does this require formalin?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by L Gebhardt View Post
    What is "newer film"? I have some older (5 to 10 years out of date) slide film that is still fine in the freezer. Does this require formalin?
    See the Kodak web site for that information. I don't really know when the cutoff was.

    PE

  6. #16

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    Thanks PE for the info. Not that I have the problem, what would be the solution to drying marks without recourse to a final rinse?
    Gari

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by garri View Post
    Thanks PE for the info. Not that I have the problem, what would be the solution to drying marks without recourse to a final rinse?
    Gari
    For color film, stabilzer made for the film, for B&W a photo flo (or equivalent) rinse.

    Distilled water washing might help.

    Otherwise, nothing will help. Drying marks are a normal event when washing with most any tap water. Rinses are intended to eliminate that problem. They are generically surfactants or wetting agents.

    Regarding B&W final rinse, don't use a liquid detergent with a scent or a tint in it. Also, be careful because some detergents are too alkaline for film.

    PE

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by garri View Post
    Thanks PE for the info. Not that I have the problem, what would be the solution to drying marks without recourse to a final rinse?
    Gari
    It does help to let the drying take some time. When drying in my bathroom that is a bit humid I have much less issues (mostly none) with drying marks.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    You may not get 5 or 10, especially cross processed. You are using the wrong dye forming chemistry when you do this, and optimum dye stability is not guaranteed. CD4 used in C41 is more polar than CD3 used in E6 and the coupling chemistry must be carefully adjusted to give the best hue and stability.

    Washing out the stabilizer will decrease effectiveness by quite a bit.

    DO NOT WASH COLOR FILM AFTER THE STABILZER!

    PE
    OK OK OK!! ;-)

    I'll try to dry them without a final wash next time. I realise using C41 chemistry on E6 films is a horrible idea from an archival standpoint. From a creative standpoint -- I haven't had this much fun with color film ever. I guess I'll have to live with the negs fading or discoloring, and see it as a type of "passing" photography.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by timeUnit View Post
    OK OK OK!! ;-)

    I'll try to dry them without a final wash next time. I realise using C41 chemistry on E6 films is a horrible idea from an archival standpoint. From a creative standpoint -- I haven't had this much fun with color film ever. I guess I'll have to live with the negs fading or discoloring, and see it as a type of "passing" photography.
    Hey, I do a lot of cross processing of EPP myself. I know the pitfalls, and have had good stability (so far). I just don't want to say it is ok and have someone complain to me that it isn't ok.

    I even cross process my Endura paper to get positive images.

    From a creative standpoint, I agree with you totally. I have posted some of the crossed processing here and on PN.

    PE

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