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  1. #11
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    At the time when I interacted with them, I had 3 friends with 3M and they had a plant here in Rochester. They only discussed their C41 films with me, and the things we discussed indicated, as above, that they were about 20 years behind EK chemistry.

    PE

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    PE, when was it you interacted with these 3M people? If it was a long time ago, it's conceivable that 3M/Imation/Ferrania could have caught up a bit -- or fallen further behind. (My subjective impression from the consumer end is that they're still well behind Kodak and Fuji, but not as badly as they were a decade ago.)

  3. #13
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    They didn't catch up! No way did they catch up with either EK or Fuji. If anything, the gap increased. I have followed the work there as well as at Agfa and Fuji.

    PE

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    "Behind" has multiple meanings, but it is end result that counts. I wonder if the current Solaris 35mm color negative films (100, 200, 400, 800 ISO's) lag behind in grain, latitude, color? Are they behind in the context of "state-of-the-art" manufacturing, or in "state-of-the-art" image quality?

    Phototone

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    Well, since Kodak and Fuji patents are expiring, who knows except Ferrania.

    Kodak and Fuji and Ilford have patents on DIR and DIAR couplers, state of the art dye stability stuff, T-Grains, and 2 electron sensitization. Ferrania has nothing except what they can get from patent literature AFAIK.

    So, their film, if not state of the art, will resemble Kodak or Fuji film from the 70s or 80s. It will be less sharp, more grainy and have less color accuracy than the equivalent from EK or Fuji IMHO.

    PE

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    So, their film, if not state of the art, will resemble Kodak or Fuji film from the 70s or 80s. It will be less sharp, more grainy and have less color accuracy than the equivalent from EK or Fuji IMHO.

    PE

    Seconded, except that 'colour accuracy' is a somewhat debatable concept. And of course there's always Ektachrome 64, which I believe is still in production... Of course that IS a film from the 70s.

    My wife Frances Schultz, who covers film for Shutterbug, says that as far as she is aware there are no E6-conpatible or mono emulsions from Ferrania any more, but she will double-check that with Ferrania tomorrow.

    Cheers,

    R.

  7. #17
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    Roger;

    Color accuracy can be checked easily in one sense by taking a picture of the MacBeth Color Checker and then comparing a neutally balanced print or the slide with the original for accuracy. This is most often done using a spectrophotometric curve of the patches on the checker vs the patches that were photographed.

    Accuracy is thereby not 'debatable' except where subjective preference comes in, or where accuracy vs illuminant comes into play.

    I wish we could get together for a long chat on this one. I did a lot of work of this type.

    PE

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I wish we could get together for a long chat on this one.
    PE
    Dear PE,

    Me too. My immediate counter would be that a Macbeth chart isn't the real world, coupled with disputes about the nature of a 'balanced' print. I'd be the last to fall into the trap that objectivity is meaningless, but the psychophysical aspect intrigues me, especially the way that films have grown steadily more saturated. What fascinates me is the way that a picture should record what we remember, not what we (think we) saw...

    Frances was born in Rochester and her late uncle David was a Kodak pilot. Maybe one day we'll get back there again. I'm sure you know a good deal more than I and I would love to learn all I could from you -- though when I met Grant Haist in February this year I found that general conversation kept distracting us from the hard science. I bought a copy of his book, though.

    Cheers,

    R.

  9. #19
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    Roger;

    I flew with Kodak Air a few times myself.

    The ideal picture with a checker is a real picture with a checker in the scene, so that everything is balanced. I have a few demo pictures to show you or anyone who drops by anytime.

    I just saw Grant this last week. You must have seen him in Fla. He just left Rochester for Michigan and then will go to Fla in Feb.

    Look in the front part of the book and you will see my name as well as the names of the rest of us who helped him edit both volumes.

    PE

  10. #20

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    In the world of photography, either color or black and white, we often use products that are not "state of the art" because we like what they do for us in the creation of our images. I would think that the Solaris films, whether they are behind-the-times or not, might offer a "look" that is different and I, for one, might consider this as another paint on my pallet for creativity.

    There are lots of us that use "old fashioned" single coated b/w films from Eastern Europe for the "look" it gives us. There are some of us who do wet collodion work, for the "look". Certainly not state-of-the-art.

    It is true that in general color films from Kodak and Fuji have become "better" in many ways, finer grain, better keeping qualities of the processed image, more color saturation options, higher ISO's, etc., but those are only some of the attributes that make a film worthy for creating our individual visions.

    Oh, and the Solaris films, according to their website, are available (in addition to 35mm) in 126, 110 and APS, which can keep some cameras going.

    Phototone

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