Thanks Daniel. Yes I've used the Nova Press Kit as it is called. Also very good but once again the issue is shelf life once mixed and the Nova kit is for 1 litre which does 12 films as you say with Nova says no increase in time for each film. I threw away the instructions after finishing it but presumably it must cover re-use. My Jobo tank will do 2 x 35mm for 240ml of dev. As one shot this is only 8 films but at one re-use this is 16. I can't make the maths add up but this may be covered in the instructions. I forget what the Nova kit says about shelf life once the powders have been dissolved into liquids.
May be you can tell me. The reason I am seeking a small powder kit is to avoid the waiting until I have 12 films to develop.
Celer 41 is the smallest kit I can find. Paterson 500ml if you use hand inversion agitation which is what Paterson expected the users to do actually fits the bill almost as well. At 1:2 and say a 300ml tank, it's a 5 film developer.
Alas Paterson colour dev is no more and even Nova who have some old Paterson stock only have the Paterson 1 litre kit. The ideal would have been a Paterson 250/300ml ml dev container.
Ther'es a prize for someone who can devise a powder kit that allows the user to divide the powder into 1/2 film portions at a time.
Of course you'd have to pay more proportionally for such small packs than for the larger but if Nova and Celer can make up powder for 600ml and 1 litre kits respectively, you'd think that smaller kits would be possible.
The demand or lack of, may of course make it an uneconomic proposition. However given that there can't be much demand for Press Kits for out in the field photogs as the Press are all digi, I wonder whether Nova would consider smaller kits. Depends who make the 1 litre kits for them I suppose.
Martin of Silverprint hinted that he had had discussions with Nova's boss about the future of amateur colour processing. I wonder if such ideas of small kits ever came up.
Tetenal and Jobo make small C-41 kits. The Jobo kits are made by Fuji.
Originally Posted by chorleyjeff
Tetenal make a small 2 bath kit in powder form (item #102222) for 6 - 8 films, a 2 bath kit for 5 liters in liquid form (item #102228), and a 3 bath kit for 13.5 liters (item #102234)
Jobo have a 3 bath kit for 5 liters (item #9240)
If you're not taking your camera...there's no reason to travel. --APUG member bgilwee
What are your thoughts about quality of the negs please?
Originally Posted by simulatordan
I was very happy with the results I got. Some of the films were Ilford XP2 shot at 200 asa, others were mainly Fuji Superia 100 and 400.
It was possible to reuse the chemicals more than once; this is true of other C41 kits I have used but, usually with a time increase in the development stage.
I'll get the instructions from one of the kits I have at home and see if I can get the relevant bits together for you by tommorow.
Originally Posted by simulatordan
My thoughts are to split the 1 litre into 3 parts and use each for 3 films and storing the unused dev. in small sealed containers ( probably 500cc each) to get over the problem of short shelf life of part used developer.
In the meantime I'm using up my Paterson C41 dev. and cursing the day production ceased!
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I've found my copy of the instructions; sorry for the delay.
The developer is made up of 2 components:
i. CD4 ( small tube )
ii. Sodium Carbonate ( bag )
The Blix is also made up of 2 components:
i. Ammonioum Thiosulphate ( large bag )
ii. Iron EDTA complex ( small bag )
Dev unopened 2yrs opened 6mths
Blix unopened 2yrs opened 6mths
liquid storage = disolved powders NOT mixed solutions:
unused Dev/Blix 4wks used 2/3wks
The developing instructions say
" 12 full film lengths may be processed in each 1ltr kit with no change in developing time ( limited to 2 films per 300ml in miniature developing tanks ). Discard after this number has been processed. One film is equivalent to one 36 exposure 35mm or one 120mm film.
NB - If 12 films are to be processed in 1ltr without increase in development time. proceed with four batched of three films on each run. Any extension to this is experimental."
I did 3 films per 375ml; this is one 35mm at a time in a small tank. and saved the solutions.
I repeated this cycle 3 times to give me 9 films.
I then used 590ml of the already used solutions to process 1 120 film and then discarded it. Doing this twice.
If you add up the volumes you will find that I diluted the developer to make 1.2 litres approximately and had to add a little water to the final 120 mm film to get enough to cover it. Similarly the Blix which perhaps is not so critical.
The chemists among us can better tell you whether this was a good idea but I got some acceptable results.
I hope you will find this of some use.
Beware that solid ammonium thiosulfate and solid ammonium ferric edta are very hard to obtain. Usually they are sold as solutions of about 60% in water. Isolating them gives a very hygroscopic solid. Very often, the pure compounds are contaminated with sodium salts such as sodium hypo and sodium chloride.
This is why, in the thread on blixes, I warn that many powder blixes (and bleaches and fixes) for color films are not up to the job. They must be pure ammonium salts with no sodium contaminant or chloride contaminant to work.
Daniel. Under the NB Are the instructions saying: Use 1 litre for the first 3 films then re-use the 1 litre three times more which would be 12 films?
The first part prior to the NB reads as if they are saying you can do 2 films at a time in minature tanks, using 300ml then discard. So this way it's only 6 films which is only half as much. This seems quite a reduction. OR are they saying doing 2 films in 300ml then re-use once then dump which would give 12 films?
The other interesting info is the reference to developer powder both unopened and opened. I have difficulty working out why anyone would open the powder sachets and not mix into liquid so mentioning opened powder storage times suggests that you could mix smaller quantities of powder into liquid. Otherwise why not move straight from mentioning unopened powder storage times to liquid storage times which drops to 4 wks and there's the rub, as they say if you're a low volume processor?
OK I suppose you could open the sachets and then close them again but I cannot think of any good reason for so doing, can you?
I am left puzzled why it quotes opened powder time unless it is to indicate that smaller quantities can be mixed, leaving the remainder of the powder in powder form with what would then be a reasonable time before it then had to be discarded.
On the other hand if I were to be right, you'd expect the instructions to say that smaller quantities could be mixed, even if the author of the instructions had to add the two caveats that the powder had to be thoroughly shaken to distribute chemicals evenly and had to be accurately measured.
Yours and others' views welcomed.
As I was writing the details earlier I came to much the same conclusions as you have done, but thought I would leave it as stated so as not to cloud the issue.
the first part seems to be saying 2 films per 300ml ( 2 development cycles )then discard. This seems to be only 6 films per 900 ml with 100 ml wasted ???
Also I have not come across a tank that only takes 300 ml for a 35mm film; although I have never tried a stainless steel one.
I use a paterson tank which allows me to dev either 1 35mm in 375ml or 2 35mm in 630ml; 1 120mm film requires 590 ml.
I do know that it is possible to get larger tanks for up to 5 35mm films at a time.
The 'NB' would seem to infer a tank loaded with 3 35mm films, which would hold about a litre of solution, being used 4 times then discard solutions.
I could I suppose get this result thus :
(1 tank with 2 35mm films ) + ( 1 tank with 1 35mm film ) x 4
= ( 2 films ) + ( 1 film ) x 4 cycles = 12 films
= ( 690 mls ) + ( 375 mls ) = 1.065 litres used 4 times
The liquid storage reference does seem to imply part use of the chemicals, but then talks about dissolved powder as distinct from made up solutions; meaning the 4 component parts of the developer and blix in seperate containers but with some water? Is this what PhotoEngineer is refering to because the blix components are 'hygroscopic' or water hungry.
What do you think about that. Its all in the interpretation it seems.
Like to hear your comments.
Last edited by simulatordan; 11-24-2006 at 01:06 PM. Click to view previous post history.
Daniel. I have 2 Jobo tanks. One of them only takes one 35mm but only uses 140mls The other takes 2 x 35mm or 2 x 120 film for 240ml. So incredibly frugal with chems. If you were at the colour film game for a few years AND could ensure a steady throughput to avoid shelf life wastage, a secondhand Jobo would probably pay for itself in chemicals saved but that's another issue.
Yes, I am unsure of the "liquid storage = dissolved powder NOT mixed solutions" means but I can only assume that differentiating between dissolved powder( which has to be a liquid) and mixed solutions has to mean that you use a minimum amount of water to dissolve the powder which is presumably stated THEN add further water to create what is referred to as a mixed solution but the mixed solution as I have just defined it is essentially unused dev so why talk about dissolved powder, then mixed solution and finally used and unused dev/blix. I am back to where I started. My assumptions which seem logical leads me round in circles.
I am still thoroughly confused. The other explanation is that the author has used language which is essentially redundant. In trying to explain things more clearly, he/she has created in the reader's mind( well, this reader's mind) more questions than there seems answers for.
It's like those puzzles I have seen in books on Logic where the argument leads round in circles.