Hi ZoneIII, I use a Jobo and the 2500 series drums and 2509 reels.
The Jobo is a no more than a tempered water tank and motor. I see no reason that you couldn't roll 'em in a tempered bath if you have such a thing, which I assume you do as you stated that you have temp control.
As has been said, it would just be a little tedious rolling by hand.
Worth noting is that it seems that only the first bath is critically temp dependant, with Tetanal chems at least..
First Dev +/- .5deg
Color Dev +/- 1deg
Bleach and wash is +/-5deg
...I will check out those drums. Could they be manually rolled in a water bath?...
Here's a link to the Jobo roller base for manual rotation. You can immerse it in a water bath. It's the same as the support rollers that come with the processors, except there are two sets of rollers here.
Prices for the processors on ebay seem to be falling some, but ebay prices on tanks and such are often equal or greater than new.
While you can use a tank on manual rollers in a water bath, I think it will get old fast. I use a Jobo CPP with a lift for E-6, C-41 and Pyro processing. I picked mine up used on ebay for about $300. In addition to the temperature control, I find the lift mechanism allows me to have consistent processing times for all my solutions. You also might want to invest in some measuring syringes from Photographers Formulary. These make it easy to mix up small amounts of E-6 chemistry from the single use kit.
Upon re-reading your original post, I see no evidence that I had read it carelessly, but as you apparently were unable to understand my reply, I shall expand it somewhat, with apologies for the length of the post.
Originally Posted by ZoneIII
The two methods described, are, I firmly believe, the only rational ways to process E6 in small quantities; Jobo or similar machines, or a Nova hand line. In other words, if you do it any other way, you are risking poor results with sheet film. If you want to take that risk, then the very best of luck to you.
It's true that 35mm and roll film are easier: I've done them in small tanks with a bucket of hot water, but you need very large amounts of E6 chemicals for inversion agitation of 4x5 inch in a watertight tank, and non-watertight tanks (the case with most 5x4 tanks) are more trouble than they are worth unless they are lined up in a water bath and you work in the dark, i.e. a Nova hand line by any other name.
Tray processing won't work -- keeping trays at 100 degrees with repeatable agitation? -- and while you might get away with floating tanks in bowls of water, using aquarium heaters, etc., it is my firm belief that to do so is rash in the extreme. Some people may make these bodge-ups work, and produce results indistinguishable from a CPE-2 or hand line. Others may produce results that are good enough for them (see below). I would not like to bet on my producing results that I consider acceptable. I repeat: you're welcome to take the risk.
What is more, if you look closely at the other posts, you will see that few if any claim to have processed sheet film successfully using anything other than a CPE-2 or equivalent. Yes, there are lots of untried ideas; and the key word is 'untried'.
All right, 'without spending ANY money' is a slight exaggeration, but 'without spending the money necessary to do the job' is close enough.
I am constantly astonished at people's priorities. Some will spend a fortune on cameras and lenses, then use outdated film, not because they like the results but because they're cheapskates. Others will buy expensive film -- such as 4x5 inch tranny -- and then try to process it in a lash-up. Once more: it's your choice. But I've been processing colour films at home for over a third of a century, and I stand by both my original reading of your post and the advice given in this post and my last.
Last edited by Roger Hicks; 08-18-2007 at 02:23 AM. Click to view previous post history.
Whoops - actually it's a Jobo CPE - the CPP is considerably more expensive.
Originally Posted by dslater
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Except the Jobos tend to have
Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
1) Wimpy motors
2) Little room for tempering chemicals and wash water
3) The lower priced models have what +/- 1degree C claimed temperture control?
Today you have to add the service part issues.
The advantage of the Jobo "system" was it's a complete system. Tick off the right boxes in the Jobo catalog and the dealer could ship you a complete setup. All designed to work together. Ranging from the Jobo Tempering box [TPE?] all the way up to the big ATL machines.
Not everybody wants to settle for the limits that Jobos cost accountants settled on. It's also 2007. Some things have improved. It's possible to pick and choose what you like. The common legend is the Jobo motor is just an auto wiper motor. What are the odds the heating element was an in house design? How much is left in models below the ATL ?
Start with some thing like this.
Add a large insulated picnic cooler. You'll gain more capacity. Better control. All that thermal mass and insulation will mean less wild swings then the Jobo. You won't have to worry about parts.
The end cost won't be much if any cheaper then an used Jobo. But you'll be able to keep it working long after Jobo runs out of parts.
I looked at trying to do E6 on a restricted budget, but decided it wasn't feasible. Spending the best part of £1000 a year at the lab encouraged me to look more rationally at providing a solution.
Jobo CPE/CPP produce good results, but require you to be ever present to effect the chemical changes. Something I could do, but rather wouldn't. The Jobo ATL processors are fire and forget, beeping to let you know that they have finished their task. I prefer this level of effort!
I bought a second hand ATL-1000 for £350 in which I was able to do E6, B+W and also C41. The ATL-1500 offers more flexibility in programs, but the 1000 covers all but the worst exposure errors.... These machines take up very little space and enable processing of up to 12 sheets at a time. Their temp control is ±0.1 degree C.
Currently I have a bigger and more capable model, the ATL2300 which I was given. The bigger machines are often cheaper, since not many people want to afford the space which they occupy.
Also for best results, you need to buy pH meter to adjust colour balance via colour developer, I have to add Na OH. There is plenty of info in the APUG archives.
Processing your own film is not only satisfying, the reduced cost means that you are more likely to shoot more film and learn by pushing yourself into new areas. Cost per sheet is between £0.40 and £0.50 as opposed to £2.30+ here in UK. Push/pull costs you no extra either.
Fair enough. That's why I said 'or similar machines', and you seem to have built a better machine: I take my hat off to you. But as far as I could see, the OP's objection to the Jobo was money -- and as you say yourself, your solution won't save you money.
Originally Posted by Nick Zentena
But just bobbing it in a water-bath is another matter. And I repeat: how many there had actually tried the advice they were handing out, and got good results? Most of it was along the lines of 'There's no reason why you shouldn't...'
Um, I use Jobo's 2830 drum to process my 8x10 transparencies. I have been using a Rubbermaid cooler to keep the chemicals at the right temperature. I preheat the drum before developing, and I roll the drum on a slightly raised platform covered by a heating blanket. I've only done 40 slides so far with this setup, but things have been going much better than I expected. I've uploaded an example shot. It's Kodak E100VS film. Cheers everybody.
I have to agree a Jobo is the way to go for ease of use. After doing 4x5 in half gallon tanks and switching to Jobo. my quality of life greatly improved.