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  1. #31

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Hi Jim!

    I'm glad you're joining the E-6 club -- We need more people like you!

    About the issue of the first developer time, it depends a bit on the final use of the film, i.e. will it be scanned, will it be projected onto a screen; and/or will it be printed onto Ilfochrome or have an interneg made for C-prints?

    If you scan your tranny to print (as I do), or if you project onto a screen, then, in almost every case, you need to guard against blowing out the highlights, i.e. keeping the highlights low on the shoulder. Also, in many cases, you can adjust the scanner to increase the exposure to "punch through" the extra density down in the toe, if that is needed.

    The reason we all shoot chromes to begin with, is to get that full, rich look we just can't quite get with color negs (or with digital, without Photoshop making everything look artificial). That is the reason I recommend the trend downwards of first developer action.

    [The analogy to C-41 negs also holds: Photo Engineer recommends shooting 1/3 stop over; in this case to compensate for manufacturing variances down in the toe of the curve. I (essentially) do the same thing by exposing at box speed, then increasing the first dev time from 3:15 to 3:30, giving the film a 1/3rd stop push.]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_in_Kyiv View Post
    Tom and Roger,

    I've read this thread with great interest - especially the parts not directly related to the amount of time the film is spent in the developer. Sorry to see the friction, but at the same time - thanks!

    After leaving photography aside for a while to develop my writing/editing business, I've found some time and money (simultaneously!) to work on it again, and spent last night setting up a quite small darkroom in a closet. I was pondering E-6 processing, especially given my desire to tinker/'see if I can do it this way'.

    Your exchanges (from both sides) brought home to me that there is a time and a place for such things, but also that I need to balance cost/quality/tinkering (chose two?). So no E-6 tray developing, and no screwing around building enlargers out of scrap Voigtlander 6x9 folders. I've got enough projects to keep me busy as it is.

    Once again,
    Thanks!

    Jim

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Ukraine
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    231
    Hi Dan,

    It's good to be back. I dropped off just after Roger joined APUG. I'd shot a little bit of 4x5/9x12 slide film since it was impossible to find anyone in Kyiv who could handle C-41 in LF at the time. I liked the results, but was more interested in black and white then as I had gotten a taste for it before I moved here.

    One of the decisions that came out of reading the thread was that I'll set this darkroom up for B&W as well, and support the local shop that handles E-6 by using them for processing as well as buying film. As Ukraine develops, there's a rising interest in all sorts of photography, so finding the 'consumables' is getting easier here, unlike in much of the world.

    Even though I'm not going to develop E-6 myself, I keep things like the points that you mentioned in mind, as I'm taking slides more seriously now. The Moskva V works well enough that I'm sure that the mistakes are operator error; now I need to find out if the Soviets ever made slide projectors that handled 120. Scanning is another issue to dig into, but that's another forum entirely.

    Thanks,
    Jim
    Last edited by Jim_in_Kyiv; 08-22-2007 at 01:29 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: I'm an editor; that's why I edited it.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    Eastern Canada
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    41
    I'm glad you're joining the E-6 club -- We need more people like
    you!
    The more people that get involved in E6 and especially home processing,
    the more chances Kodak and Fuji will continue to make the film and
    chemicals.

    About the issue of the first developer time, it depends a bit on
    the final use of the film, i.e. will it be scanned, will it be projected
    onto a screen; and/or will it be printed onto Ilfochrome or have an
    interneg made for C-prints?
    Exactly. While color processing requires a certain level of precision,
    ultimately it still comes down to one's personal preference, especially
    when we're talking 1/3 and half stop differences. So it's important not
    to get hung up on a specific time, what IS important is to find a
    process time/temp you like and be consistent about it. If you prefer
    your slides a third or half under or over, that's perfectly fine. And as
    Dan pointed out, the final use of the transparency can play a part in
    how you expose/develop it.

    If you scan your tranny to print (as I do), or if you project
    onto a screen, then, in almost every case, you need to guard against
    blowing out the highlights, i.e. keeping the highlights low on the
    shoulder. Also, in many cases, you can adjust the scanner to increase
    the exposure to "punch through" the extra density down in the toe, if
    that is needed.
    Yup, like digital, blowing highlights with slide film is bad. The one
    slide film that I find has a broad shoulder is Velvia. I find it handles
    highlights better than many other E6 films. Also, since it is so
    abundantly saturated, I prefer to slightly overexpose it by a third
    stop. Of course, this also helps cut through Velvia's inky black shadows
    a little better which eases scanning. I guess this is also why so many
    have rated Velvia at ISO 40 over the years.

    The reason we all shoot chromes to begin with, is to get that
    full, rich look we just can't quite get with color negs (or with
    digital, without Photoshop making everything look artificial)
    Amen brother, praise the lord

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    35mm RF
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    218
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Landry View Post
    The one slide film that I find has a broad shoulder is Velvia. I find it handles highlights better than many other E6 films. Also, since it is so abundantly saturated, I prefer to slightly overexpose it by a third stop. Of course, this also helps cut through Velvia's inky black shadows a little better which eases scanning. I guess this is also why so many have rated Velvia at ISO 40 over the years.
    That's very interesting. I think I'll have to buy a few rolls. I had always thought a lower contrast film like astia or sensia would be better for protecting highlights. Do your remarks about Velvia and highlights also apply to the other Velvias like 100 & 100F?

  5. #35

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Hollis, NH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discpad View Post
    The reason we all shoot chromes to begin with, is to get that full, rich look we just can't quite get with color negs (or with digital, without Photoshop making everything look artificial). That is the reason I recommend the trend downwards of first developer action.
    Except that reducing your first developer time reduces the saturation of the film.

    Quote Originally Posted by Discpad View Post
    [The analogy to C-41 negs also holds: Photo Engineer recommends shooting 1/3 stop over; in this case to compensate for manufacturing variances down in the toe of the curve. I (essentially) do the same thing by exposing at box speed, then increasing the first dev time from 3:15 to 3:30, giving the film a 1/3rd stop push.]
    These are not really equivalent at all. Increasing exposure will support your shadow density, while increasing development just raises your highlights without really affecting shadows.

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