Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,564   Posts: 1,573,373   Online: 1018
      
Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst 12345678910111213 LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 121
  1. #61
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    But can anyone else ever expect to match that quality in a small substitute operation, maybe with substitute equipment and chemicals?
    No.

    With substitute chemicals, that is. If I were able to get the real deal and I had the proper exposure filters, I see no reason why not. Remember, this process can be drawn out. There's nothing stopping me from taking an entire day to process one roll (save my impatients) . If the chemistry was mixed fresh and was kept in working condition, I'm doing the exact same thing as dwaynes, right? The first development is just as critical as the E6 equivalent. The re-developers don't need absolutely precise control. You need to develop as much as possible of the exposed layer, but as little of the remaining negative image in the other layers. The magenta developer develops to completion. The rest of the process is the same as any other color process.

  2. #62
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,405
    Images
    65
    Kodachrome has a minimum of 6 precision coated layers. It may be 9 or more in some of the line. I have forgotten.

    Basically, these layers are B&W film emulsions but coated individually based on color sensitivity.

    The development can be halted and the film washed and dried and kept in the dark after the 1st developer or after any of the color developers, but ----- the color developers are more critical than the E6 single color developer. The E6 color developer goes to completion, but the Kodachrome color developers each must go to just the right peak development level to prevent cross contamination of colors.

    The Kodachrome process is therefore more critical and sensitive than E6.

    PE

  3. #63

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,601
    Quote Originally Posted by tiberiustibz View Post
    No.

    With substitute chemicals, that is. If I were able to get the real deal and I had the proper exposure filters, I see no reason why not. Remember, this process can be drawn out. There's nothing stopping me from taking an entire day to process one roll (save my impatients) . If the chemistry was mixed fresh and was kept in working condition, I'm doing the exact same thing as dwaynes, right? The first development is just as critical as the E6 equivalent. The re-developers don't need absolutely precise control. You need to develop as much as possible of the exposed layer, but as little of the remaining negative image in the other layers. The magenta developer develops to completion. The rest of the process is the same as any other color process.
    It would be a fantastic exercise if you could make it work, and I would be happy to entrust one or two experimental K64 (particularly 120 and if nothing else were available).

    I think my point was, however, that, would people entrust their special films to you as a semi-commercial exercise? (Not sure if that is your intent). e.g. I shot a lot of K64 at my daughter's wedding three years ago but had that film not been available, I would have used only the freshest and nearest E6 substitute and the most reliable processing.

    I can only think that any long-term future for Kodachrome outside Kodak support can be no more than small-scale enthusiast/experimental, but I really would love to be proved wrong.

  4. #64
    AgX
    AgX is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Germany
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,970
    In a textbook text by S. Welford on the Kodachrome processes I found this (seemingly having overlooked this passage up to now…):

    “Other intermediate processing stages may be employed in similar processes and may include black & white developers, the purpose of which is to complete the development started in one of the colour developers before proceeding to the next.”

    What was the idea behind such a competing/assisting development?

  5. #65
    wogster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bruce Peninsula, ON, Canada
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,266
    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    It would be a fantastic exercise if you could make it work, and I would be happy to entrust one or two experimental K64 (particularly 120 and if nothing else were available).

    I think my point was, however, that, would people entrust their special films to you as a semi-commercial exercise? (Not sure if that is your intent). e.g. I shot a lot of K64 at my daughter's wedding three years ago but had that film not been available, I would have used only the freshest and nearest E6 substitute and the most reliable processing.

    I can only think that any long-term future for Kodachrome outside Kodak support can be no more than small-scale enthusiast/experimental, but I really would love to be proved wrong.
    I think your right, if Kodak wanted to end Kodachrome, and someone offered to buy the process, formulae, machinery, and set up their own processing system, which could simply be sub-contracting to Dwaynes, as done currently, they could keep Kodachrome going.

    The real issue is that Kodachrome is unique, and unique makes it expensive, expensive is fine when you make massively huge batches, and most importantly, sell those batches before the film expires, making something on each roll. Of course the more units you can sell, the less you need to make on each unit in order to make a decent profit on the product.

    Yes you can make smaller batches, but some of the costs are fixed, and some are volume discounted, so the smaller batch does not result in a linear reduction in cost, at some point the costs simply get too high to continue. Not only is the film production designed for high volume, but in the case of K14, so is the processing.

    Film has a point where you will pick one film you like, over a film that's cheaper. For example if you can buy E6 film and get it processed for $15/roll, and K14 film costs you $20/roll (processed), maybe you choose the K14, would you still choose the K14 film if it was $40/roll or $80/roll, what about $160/roll?
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  6. #66

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Van Buren, Arkansas
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,412
    Images
    101
    You all are aware that Kodak does not have a separate manufacturing plant and coating line just for Kodachrome aren't you? AFAIK they use their mostly same equipment as used to coat and finish other films...therefore if they did "sell" Kodachrome it would not come with equipment.

  7. #67
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    23,405
    Images
    65
    Well, for AgX, see my last post up above on Kodachrome. The color developers do not go to completion and can be "adjusted" by using B&W developers to finish off a layer. This is not currently in use!

    For Paul, Kodak has abandoned the Kodachrome patents, so they are free for use by anyone. Fuji can coat Kodachrome film (and did), but left the market as it was too tiny. Same went for Konica. Their Sakuracolor was Kodachrome at one time.

    So any major film company CAN coat Kodachrome, but no film company WANTS to coat Kodachrome. No market. Kodak makes it as a flagship product but I would guess at a loss.

    PE

  8. #68

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, for AgX, see my last post up above on Kodachrome. The color developers do not go to completion and can be "adjusted" by using B&W developers to finish off a layer. This is not currently in use!
    Could this potentially be used to eliminate the magenta shift that one gets in outdated Kodachrome? Develop the cyan and yellow layers to completion using B&W developers, so no magenta dye can form there in the last step. Do I understand this correctly? If so, it would be great if Dwayne's could start doing this, as there's a lot of outdated Kodachrome out there...

  9. #69
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    There are other ways to correct the magenta cast. By increasing the re-exposure time to fog the rest of the halide when it has a relatively reduced speed or using a green filter instead of a fogging developer or straight white exposure, one could reduce or eliminate the cast. The two issues with kodachrome degredation are background fog and speed loss. You will still have the first, but if one knows there is a speed loss and knows just how much, it would not be hard at all to compensate.

  10. #70
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    If I started with a generic B+W film developer, added CD4 and couplers, would the varied PH effect the development? If I corrected the PH to the proper level, would this be solved?



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin