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  1. #11

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    [QUOTE=ben-s;519330
    PE; I'm afraid I don't really know anything about the CD4 business - I take it Kodak made a new dev and called it CD4, then after it had been on the market a while, pulled the plug because it's couplers were short lived?

    How would I find out if a particular chemistry used CD4? - Is the giveaway the processing themerature?
    /QUOTE]

    Think of CD4/CD3 like Metol in B&W. CD3 is for paper. CD4 for film. If you stick to stuff with either a Kodak or a Fuji label you should be just fine.

  2. #12

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    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...20.14.24&lc=en

    That's the North American site..

    Is Portra Endura gone??????? Why drop Portra and keep Supra instead?

  3. #13
    ben-s's Avatar
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    I already have a reasonably accurate thermometer, which I keep in the Jobo. The temperature is extremely consistent throughout the bath, as I added a recirculation pump on the recommendation of several people here.
    Lens caps and cable releases can become invisible at will. :D

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Zentena View Post
    I always considered Portra Endura more the normal. Supra a bit higher. I think the stuff he's looking at is Portra but I can't keep up with Kodak Also for all I know the stuff may have different names in the UK.
    Based on the Kodak docs, Portra was low, Supra medium, and Ultra high. So Supra is obviously more contrasty than Portra.

    I've had excellent contrast with shots taken in daylight on 400NC printed on Supra. Detail everywhere is preserved, from shadows to highlights. Perhaps some more contrasty films take more trouble to print.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    CD4 develops more rapidly than CD3. This allows the developer to work at lower temperatures in the 'normal' 45 second development time for a 100 F process.

    I've found that the CD3 vs CD4 yields worse dyes with CD4 with lower stability with the couplers in color papers.

    Also, you can use Kodak RA-RT developer replenisher at 68 deg F for 2 minutes and get excellent images with no problem in the hue of the dyes or their stability.

    So, you usually find CD4 in kits that advertize use at low temperature. I can't say which companies use it at this time. I can say that they sometimes give this information clearly on the bottle or in the MSDS.

    PE
    PE Thanks. If I have understood your correctly the plus for CD4 is its ability to develop at lower temp than the standard 45 sec at 35 degrees centrigrade. The big minus is its worse dyes and lower stability.

    Yet the Kodak RA-RT kit is OK at room temp. So what does the Kodak kit contain which makes it OK at room temp. Is this the CD3 that Nick Zentenna mentions?

    Will a CD4 kit operate at 35 dgrees C in addition to lower temps and if it does, do the same problems of worse dyes and lower stability manifest themselves? If anyone were to use a CD4 kit at 35 degrees C would the quality problems be there from the start or only appear in a matter of months, years etc. What timescale for such problems did your research indicate?

    As the original OP indicated such info isn't easy to find out. Last night I checked for any reference to CD4 and found it on one label but this was for C-41 developer. Based on Nick's post it looks as if CD4 for C-41 is in fact the correct stuff so I need have no worries there.

    Most of us have to trust that the suppliers are producing the correct kit. The chemistry of colour processing for both C-41 and RA4 is knowledge that's way beyond my reach.

    Someone, Nick I think, said that Kodak or Fuji kits will be fine, Unfortunately Fuji-Hunt kits as it they are called in the UK seem to be even harder to find than Kodak's.

    On Kit information and because we are the other side of the Atlantic, any contribution from UK users would be most welcome as well.

    Thanks

    pentaxuser

  6. #16
    ben-s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
    ...
    On Kit information and because we are the other side of the Atlantic, any contribution from UK users would be most welcome as well.
    ...
    Ditto.

    Calumet have confused the hell out of me - they only sell the tetenal stuff as a kit, and the Kodak stuff has no proper descriptions, and cryptic names that don't properly tally up with Kodak's site...

    My problem is now that I don't know whether the Tetenal stuff has CD4 in it, and I don't know which of the 26 kodak items to get.

    I'm inclined to give the tetenal stuff a try, as I have had good results with their C41 and E6 kits.


    I wonder if we could set up a UK suppliers list, with the codes for specific items?
    Something along the lines of :
    To make an n Litre C41/E6/RA4 kit from Kodak/Fuji/Other chemicals,
    use supplier 1 part numbers: XXXXX, YYYYY, and ZZZZZ
    OR, supplier 2 part numbers: XXXXX, YYYYY, and ZZZZZ etc...
    Lens caps and cable releases can become invisible at will. :D

  7. #17

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    I don't know if Fuji makes any small kits. They make [or used to] make 1US gallon jugs of stuff. Plus bigger jugs. Most of the stuff keeps fairly well. You buy a jug of developer. One of bleach. One of fix. It's easy enough to replenish.

    You can get the various documents from the Fuji-Hunt website.

    The hard part is finding some body that will order the stuff for you. Locally I think one shop still might but other then that it's sweet talking a lab owner with a Fuji account.

    Kodak makes the same sort of stuff. Kits are nice when you first start out but in some ways it's more easy to buy the jugs on their own.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by ben-s View Post
    Ditto.

    Calumet have confused the hell out of me - they only sell the tetenal stuff as a kit, and the Kodak stuff has no proper descriptions, and cryptic names that don't properly tally up with Kodak's site...

    My problem is now that I don't know whether the Tetenal stuff has CD4 in it, and I don't know which of the 26 kodak items to get.

    I'm inclined to give the tetenal stuff a try, as I have had good results with their C41 and E6 kits.


    I wonder if we could set up a UK suppliers list, with the codes for specific items?
    Something along the lines of :
    To make an n Litre C41/E6/RA4 kit from Kodak/Fuji/Other chemicals,
    use supplier 1 part numbers: XXXXX, YYYYY, and ZZZZZ
    OR, supplier 2 part numbers: XXXXX, YYYYY, and ZZZZZ etc...
    Ben, your proposal is seconded. While we await PE's reply to my further set of questions which I think will help, all I can say is that so far I've used Tetenal RA4 and the now defunct Paterson RA4 kits. So far I haven't seen any problem that I recognise as such, but none of the prints are more than a couple of years old and it leaves the question: If I have used a CD4 kit, do I know how much better Kodak or Fuji kits might be? No is the short answer. I might be satisfied with second best and just don't know it.


    For what it is worth Morco seem to specialise in Kodak kits but like you I cannot really make head nor tail of what you order. I think a phone call is required but this assumes you can talk to a knowledgeable person and not just an order taker.

    The Morco website clearly assumes full knowledge on the part of the customer. I suppose that this is on the basis of their assumption that if you do RA4 printing, you have done it for years and know everything and if you're new to photography then you're a digi with no interest in RA4 or use a mini-lab.

    The alternative is Nova who sell a variety of kits. Hopefully the new man there is knowledgeable but such good advisors are getting to be rare.

    Whatever you find out let APUG know. I'll do the same. There are others on the site in the UK who do RA4 but I think we could hold the AGM in a telephone box!

    pentaxuser

  9. #19
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    I also recently got into colour printing. I ahev been using the Tetenal 5L 35deg. kit, in a Durst Printo.

    I wont go into too much detail, but ina nutshell, my first impresions are:

    1. It's a cheap.
    2. Chemicals last for ages once mixed. You pour them in the processor, switch on and start processing once they are up to temperature. Simple.
    3. Nailing the filtration is a lot easier than I was expecting, and the amount of adjustment seems to generlaly be very small.
    4. It is easier than B&W in many respects.
    5. The paper is cheap. In the UK Morco also have Kodak Endura 8X10 for £16.

    Matt

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post

    The alternative is Nova who sell a variety of kits. Hopefully the new man there is knowledgeable but such good advisors are getting to be rare.

    pentaxuser
    The new man is very knowledgeable, and I chatted to him a lot about RA4.

    Embarassingly, I just can't remember his name at present!

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