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Thread: Kodak Vision 3

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz_Anderle View Post
    It would be a great advantage for Kodak if photographic color print film and motion picture negative film would just be determined by packing into a 35 mm cartridge or onto a roll - as with the first Agfacolor negative materials in the 1940s, when still photo Agfacolor was the same as motion picture film.

    The question remains: would it pay for Kodak to issue a new generation of photo films at a time when the print paper product lines are gradually phased out, and automated digital negative scanning and printing means a sort of the bed of Procrustes? The new generation of motion picture film is stated to have been optimized for digital conversion, which might mean that the gradation could have been optimized for the inherent limitation of sensors at high densities. Even the predecessor was capable to differentiate between 20 f-stops (although that might not have been linear over the complete range), what doesn't make me wonder: upon shooting ordinary photographic color print film (Agfa Optima 400) towards the sun on a clear sky, the surrounding halo could be clearly differentiated from the sun itself upon scanning.

    It would be interesting to have Fuji Reala 500D, the first 4 layer-motion picture folm, compared to Kodak Vision 3 500T - could someone, please, get both loaded into 35 mm cartridges, shoot them with and without conversion filters at various illumination conditions, then have both ECN-2-processed, darkroom-printed, and scanned?...

    My film of choice is the improved Fujicolor Superia 400 - absolutely perfect.
    Heinz;

    Motion picture films are built to a contrast of about 0.5, while professional still are built to about 0.6 and consumer films (Gold) to about 0.7 - rough numbers. The MP film has about 2x the latitude of the other two and the print film has a differenent contrast to allow for SFX printing and making intermediates.

    We still photographers should not have to pay for the extras in MP film.

    Also, Fuji MP film is built to the same high standards as their still films are, but MP pros still use Kodak film for their best work. This is due to superior quality in the negative and print films both in their opinion.

    In the opinion of cinemetographers that I've talked to, Kodak holds the edge in negative films, while Fuji holds the edge in reversal films.

    PE

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz_Anderle View Post
    It would be a great advantage for Kodak if photographic color print film and motion picture negative film would just be determined by packing into a 35 mm cartridge or onto a roll
    The different processing infrastructures, if nothing else, make this unlikely -- ECN-2 and C-41 are different processes, and changing either could be a nightmare for the photofinishing industry.

    That said, it is possible to shoot ECN-2 film in a still camera and get prints out of it. As PE says, the results may not be optimal, but it is possible, if you want to experiment or if a feature of a new ECN-2 film is worth the downside. IIRC, somebody even posted some ECN-2 developer formulas to the APUG chemical recipes area a few months ago.

    The question remains: would it pay for Kodak to issue a new generation of photo films at a time when the print paper product lines are gradually phased out, and automated digital negative scanning and printing means a sort of the bed of Procrustes?
    If memory serves, it wasn't that long ago that Kodak released their Vision 2 MP films, and it was just a few months later (maybe a year or so) before the same technology found its way into the Portra line of C-41 films. I wouldn't be surprised if this pattern repeats itself, although I have no inside information and so cannot promise that it will.

  3. #43
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    AFAIK, A research team is working now on the Vision2 advances to be put into new consumer negative films and B&W films.

    PE

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    Quote Originally Posted by srs5694 View Post
    The different processing infrastructures, if nothing else, make this unlikely -- ECN-2 and C-41 are different processes, and changing either could be a nightmare for the photofinishing industry.

    That said, it is possible to shoot ECN-2 film in a still camera and get prints out of it. As PE says, the results may not be optimal, but it is possible, if you want to experiment or if a feature of a new ECN-2 film is worth the downside.
    I know about the differences, and here in Austria I am not aware of any lab processing motion picture film confectioned in 35 mm cartridges. A too soft negative contrast will however require excessive computer adjustment upon scanning; results obtained with contrasty print paper might be better.

    In the very early days of moden color photography, the Agfacolor film was essentially the same for still and motion picture photography. Stills for film productions in the war years were shot on this material, and the first commercially available Agfacolor photo print film was introduced in 1947 with the MP designations B (for carbon arc = daylight) and G (for incandescent illumination = bulb).

    But with today's shrinking still photography market, it seems that we must wait years for the improvements, if they will ever be made available to us.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    AFAIK, A research team is working now on the Vision2 advances to be put into new consumer negative films and B&W films.

    PE
    Hi Ron,

    that is very interesting, because the improvements of Vision 2 (for example the two electron senzitization) were already implemented in some films of the professional line: Portra 800, Portra 400, Portra 160 and afaik in BW 400 CN, too. I don't know whether Ektachrome E100G and E100GX have the two electron senzitization. The Ektachromes hit the market in 2003, one year after the Vision 2 introduction.

    Best regards,
    Jana

  6. #46
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    A testament to the advances in the Vision 2 range was Kodak's decision to package and formally market not only the Vision 2 200T, but also the Vision 2 500T in Super8 - the incredible advances in film technology made a 500 speed film capable of very respectable images in the tiny 8mm frame.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanaM View Post
    Hi Ron,

    that is very interesting, because the improvements of Vision 2 (for example the two electron senzitization) were already implemented in some films of the professional line: Portra 800, Portra 400, Portra 160 and afaik in BW 400 CN, too. I don't know whether Ektachrome E100G and E100GX have the two electron senzitization. The Ektachromes hit the market in 2003, one year after the Vision 2 introduction.

    Best regards,
    Jana
    Sorry for my typo there. The Vision 3 improvements are being worked on now for consumer films. So in my post, it should be Vision 3 not Vision 2.

    AFAIK, no 2 electron sensitization E6 film has been introduced yet by Kodak. I only know of the negative film group.

    At one time, Kodak had a set of teams with 3+ people each for each product line. These teams did research that was parallel and in most cases the new products hit the market at much the same time.

    Today AFAIK, there are only 2 teams, one for reversal and one for negative (MP, consumer, professional and B&W). This therefore slows the trickle down effect or the introduction of new products.

    PE

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