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  1. #11
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    So if the developer is an ordinary B&W developer, someone must have tried other developers to control the contrast over all these years, but it must not have worked for some reason, or everyone would be doing it rather than contrast masking, which is much more labor intensive. Any ideas why not? I'd assume it's a color balance issue, but I'd be interested to hear if anyone has any real information on this topic.
    Not long after Cibachrome became popular in the 70's there were a number of alternative B&W developers published for contrast reduction, these worked well and caused no problems with colour balance. Masking can give much greater contrast reduction.

    Alternative developer suggestions for contrast reduction were regularly published in various US/Canadian photo magazines, and very occasionally in UK magazines. They can be found in back issues of Photo Techniques.

    One article suggested using De Beers variable contrast developer, I think a halide solvent like thiosulphate needed to be added after the new version of Cibachrome(Ilfochrome) was introduces.

    Ian

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Not long after Cibachrome became popular in the 70's there were a number of alternative B&W developers published for contrast reduction, these worked well <snip>.

    Ian
    But they wont anymore...


    Wayne

  3. #13
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Minor modifications could probably make it possible to use common developers.

    The problem is the cost of Cibachrome. That makes it prohibitively expensive. I used to do these types of experiments.

    PE

  4. #14

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    I got an account with Ilford back in 1996 so i could get Ilfochrome chemicals/paper delivered to my door.All they wanted was a minimum order of $750 .. A yr ago i called in a order and Wynit answered the phone,
    they approved my application but said i would need a state of Texas resale number..I explained that im a photographer who finishes his own work for resale ..Well that was not a problem but they still need a resale number.
    Since then i have been traveling to Chicago Calumet to pick up orders,its 2400 mile round trip. Ive written to the guy in charge of color sales at Ilford Switzerland Jean-Noel.Gex@ilford.com. ,and sent a letter through the post all with no answer. If i lived close to Switzerland i would for sure knock on their door and find out what the problem is..For now unless i can find a for sure supply of the product ill just finish the materials that i have and be done with Ilfochrome.
    John

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Meyer View Post
    I got an account with Ilford back in 1996 so i could get Ilfochrome chemicals/paper delivered to my door.All they wanted was a minimum order of $750 .. A yr ago i called in a order and Wynit answered the phone,
    they approved my application but said i would need a state of Texas resale number..I explained that im a photographer who finishes his own work for resale ..Well that was not a problem but they still need a resale number.
    Since then i have been traveling to Chicago Calumet to pick up orders,its 2400 mile round trip. Ive written to the guy in charge of color sales at Ilford Switzerland Jean-Noel.Gex@ilford.com. ,and sent a letter through the post all with no answer. If i lived close to Switzerland i would for sure knock on their door and find out what the problem is..For now unless i can find a for sure supply of the product ill just finish the materials that i have and be done with Ilfochrome.
    John
    Its usually easy enough to get the resale number but can be a PIA when you have to report to the state every year, and if you arent reselling they may take it away.

    But not to worry. There are at least 3 places to get the chemicals from, all mentioned in this thread. Lab-ciba.com, Calumet, and now boyooso too. BTW, Calumet told me they would ship with a $25 hazmat fee. I'm not sure if thats per kit or per order.

    I have never gotten a single word in response to questions sent to Ilford since the Disorganization a couple years ago. They used to have great technical support, now they effectively have none. I try to just be happy that their products are available-sort of, anyway.

    Wayne

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Wayne;

    Dye bleach chemistry is doable. I have some chemicals on order right now that I will test and if it works, I will post the results.

    Dye bleach paper is coatable, provided you have the dyes and support. I have almost everything I need right now to make a 2 layer demonstration.

    So, when the time is ripe, when I have everything together, I will do it. It does not need to die.

    PE
    I was scouring old Usent posts and found this about recipes:

    " > Cibachrome (Ilfochrome) Bleach (I'm not interested in this one).

    Have you tried Wall's Enc. of Photog? Think the Ciba bleach is in there.
    Or in Heist's book. "



    I suspect the poster was wrong but I don't have the books to confirm it. Perhaps it was some other dye bleach recipe. Thought I would point it out though, in case it's helpful. We've solved the availability crisis for now; it'd be nice to solve the expense crisis too.


    Wayne

  7. #17
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Haist has no mention of the process that I could find, just a one liner. Wall, AFAIK, says nothing, not sure because I'm only really familiar with his books on emulsion making. The original name for dye bleach was Gasparcolor and is treated in a full chapter in Friedman's "History of Color Photography". There are at least a half dozen or more formulas for the bleach alone. In addition, I have many patent references here in addition to my own work at EK to rely on.

    PE

  8. #18

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    Excellent. Let me know if I can help when you find time to work on it. I might be able to donate some paper to the cause. I know I've got some in a friend's freezer but I dont know how much. I've also got some old P30 bleach concentrate, but I dont know if its good anymore. Its probably 6 years old and its not getting any younger. Would you be attempting to make something similar to P3 or P30? The latter would probably be most useful for the home user.

    Wayne

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Meyer View Post
    I got an account with Ilford back in 1996 so i could get Ilfochrome chemicals/paper delivered to my door.All they wanted was a minimum order of $750 .. A yr ago i called in a order and Wynit answered the phone,
    they approved my application but said i would need a state of Texas resale number..I explained that im a photographer who finishes his own work for resale ..Well that was not a problem but they still need a resale number.
    Since then i have been traveling to Chicago Calumet to pick up orders,its 2400 mile round trip. Ive written to the guy in charge of color sales at Ilford Switzerland Jean-Noel.Gex@ilford.com. ,and sent a letter through the post all with no answer. If i lived close to Switzerland i would for sure knock on their door and find out what the problem is..For now unless i can find a for sure supply of the product ill just finish the materials that i have and be done with Ilfochrome.
    John
    See this thread:
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/4...freestyle.html

  10. #20

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    You may want to double check the accuracy of that thread. When I talked with Freestyle recently they said they were not selling Ilfochrome chemicals anymore. BUt there is so much confusion about what is and isnt available that its worth double and triple and quadruple checking. I was told recently by a Calumet salesman that P3 was being discontinued, but it is not. He even said he had checked with Wynit, their distributor, but I find that hard to believe because Wynit knows it isnt being discontinued. The SKU number changed, thats all. This is the kind of utter confusion and misinformation you will encounter trying to obtain Ilfochrome chemicals.

    Another mistake in that thread is the P3X is not the replacement for P30. P3.5, 5 liter kits was the replacement, and it looks like now that is being replaced by 2 liter kits again (just like the old P30 was a 2 liter kit) which will be called P3.2 just to ensure there is total confusion and chaos all around. This is for the US anyway. It may be different elsewhere.


    Wayne

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