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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Hans- you are missing the point. I am not arguing with you about the relative merits of scanning and printing via inkjet. I am saying that APUG is not the place to discuss them. If you want to continue participation in THIS thread on THIS site, please confine your commentary to positive commentary on how to deal with the OP's issue in the context of an analog, chemical-based solution. If you want to discuss digital solutions, please do so, on www.hybridphoto.com .
    Printing to silver-halide-based color paper delivers an analog result, for which it finally doesn't matter if this is done in a cumbersome waste of time in a darkroom or after optimizing the contained information by an image recording device.

    Before the introduction of film scanners (all minilabs and commercial large-volume printing machines are today based on scanning and printing) the true dynamic range of color negative film could hardly be transferred to a color print. However, the results from commercial printing laboratories are unsatisfactory due to the steep gradation of color print paper. But if you like to cut masks - I do not have the time.

    I recommend to use today's standards of technology and will not discuss further with those who intend to limit other's freedom of speech. Analog photography has got a boost by the introduction of digitizing. I have shot weddings on the contrasty Superia films and have never obtained blown-out whites. It's all in the negative.

    Anyway, feel free to do whatever you want in your darkroom - but beware of a phenylene diamine contact allergy from the color developer!

  2. #22
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    Heinz-

    No attempts to limit your freedom of speech are being made. You are just insisting on arguing in an off-topic direction for this forum. APUG is a forum dedicated to discussion of ANALOG photography. We are not asking you to change your opinion about your preferred method for printing color. The discussion at hand is about how best to print the negative in question using an ANALOG method. Confine your contributions to the topic at hand. If you want to debate analog vs. digital, or to promote a digital solution, do it at www.hybridphoto.com . If you want to discuss potential allergies from color developers, please feel free to start a thread about the risks and how to avoid them (short of bashing analog methods or advocating the abandonment of wet-darkroom processes).

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Heinz-

    No attempts to limit your freedom of speech are being made. You are just insisting on arguing in an off-topic direction for this forum. APUG is a forum dedicated to discussion of ANALOG photography. We are not asking you to change your opinion about your preferred method for printing color. The discussion at hand is about how best to print the negative in question using an ANALOG method. Confine your contributions to the topic at hand. If you want to debate analog vs. digital, or to promote a digital solution, do it at www.hybridphoto.com . If you want to discuss potential allergies from color developers, please feel free to start a thread about the risks and how to avoid them (short of bashing analog methods or advocating the abandonment of wet-darkroom processes).
    Sadly yet another example of how the over-narrow "purist" mission statement for APUG may ultimately prove to be its demise. Here's a guy who shoots on film and outputs on wet-process paper, and you're telling him to get out of APUG!

  4. #24
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    David- no I'm not. He's not printing wet-process. He's saying that digital printing is superior to wet-process printing. I'm asking him politely to stick to the topic at hand in this thread - how to deal with the problem the OP is experiencing within the context of wet-process printing. If he wants to debate that particular issue - to wet print or to digital print, there is another forum, hybridphoto, to discuss it.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    David- no I'm not. He's not printing wet-process. He's saying that digital printing is superior to wet-process printing. I'm asking him politely to stick to the topic at hand in this thread - how to deal with the problem the OP is experiencing within the context of wet-process printing. If he wants to debate that particular issue - to wet print or to digital print, there is another forum, hybridphoto, to discuss it.
    Actually he says this:
    <<Printing to silver-halide-based color paper delivers an analog result, for which it finally doesn't matter if this is done in a cumbersome waste of time in a darkroom or after optimizing the contained information by an image recording device.>>

    From this, I conclude that he's shooting on film and printing onto wet-process paper which is digitally balanced and exposed (as he says, the standard practice these days in commercial labs). But - I've been down this road too often already and I'm not looking for another argument!

  6. #26

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    I know I'm stepping into a minefield, but....

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    David- no I'm not. He's not printing wet-process. He's saying that digital printing is superior to wet-process printing.
    I think it's important to first point out that there have been two people posting about the limitations of analog techniques in this thread so far: Heinz_Anderle and FilmIs4Ever. They're saying somewhat different things, with my reading being that Heinz is taking a more pro-digital viewpoint in this case.

    That said, I believe that your claim that either Heinz or FilmIs4Ever is "saying that digital printing is superior to wet-process printing" is an oversimplification, since my reading of their posts is that neither is stating such a position in the absolute way you imply. That's critically important, since if we don't recognize the limitations of analog photography, we're no better than the digital zealots on other forums.

    I'm asking him politely to stick to the topic at hand in this thread - how to deal with the problem the OP is experiencing within the context of wet-process printing.
    Although I respect the APUG ideal of sticking to traditional analog materials and processes, there comes a point beyond which that ideal becomes ridiculous, and I think this is an instance of such a point. If the thread had degenerated into a discussion of scanning techniques, asking it to be taken elsewhere would probably have been reasonable; however, your post asking that the topic not be discussed here came immediately after the very first mention of digital technology. Although I'm sure you didn't intend it this way, this quick response to a single mention of digital technology gives the impression of overzealousness.

    One final point: Heinz's personal information indicates that he's posting from Austria and has only posted 16 times so far. Although Heinz's English is very good, he's not writing like a native speaker of English. My experience in Internet forums is that people with Heinz's level of English proficiency often write rather tersely and frequently come off as more gruff than they intend. This may be contributing to a misapprehension of his views by some in this thread. I just hope the negative reaction hasn't driven a new poster away from APUG.

  7. #27
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    I think Matt5791 has settled the digital alternative solution completly and quite well:

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt5791 View Post
    Heinz - well this would be an obvious alternative solution, however I want to keep printing optically because I only have a cheap scanner, fine for scanning for the web or other electronic use, but not for printing from. Also I think optical printing deliveres, most of the time, more beautiful prints than those created with a "digital intermediate".
    To belabour it any longer is completely off topic and amounts to simple trolling.

  8. #28

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    This may have been mentioned but my net connection is too flakey to make reading all the posts possible.

    Why are you burning in the bride? I'm going to bet in 99.9999% of the wedding photos the bride is the most import thing. Set the exposure for the bride. Let that set your filters. Then if need be dodge the rest. If the background colours go to hell the only person who'll notice is you.

  9. #29
    lee
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    filmis4ever said this, "you are taking things way to far, in my opinion,"

    it is not your opinion that matters here. This site has very strict set of guide lines that everyone is asked to follow. The reason the hybrid site was founded was so that discussions like this can be discussed. Please follow the rules.

    lee\c

  10. #30

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    Nick has it here I think. If the negative is developed well and evenly then setting the exposure and filtration to balance out the white dress will give the best colour for the rest of the scene. Different films will give a slightly different rendition of the colour palette but that's a bigger discussion. This thread seems to confirm my view that many printers seem to think a constant filter pack is normal for all negatives. I simply do not believe this. If you have a colour cast on grey or white then your filtration is wrong or some other part of the picture is of more importance and you are filtering to obtain a particular colour there and are prepared to ignore a false grey/white.

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