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Thread: Chemistry

  1. #21

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    I like the idea of marbles mentioned in the earliest posts of this thread. But when I buy industrial sized stuff which I have to do, they used to come in collapsable bladders. So when they went to rigid plastic last year (they being Agfa) for there 5 gallon stuff, I went to a camping store and bought collapsable water bladders, they work great at keeping the air out of both stock and tank solutions when not in use. In a pinch once when I only made up a very small portion of chemistry for some testing, I used vinyl gloves filled with the about 500ml of solutions and rubber banded the wrists. This worked for over night but not for a long haul. Hi, btw, I'm new my name is Jill. Should have put that as my ID but I wasn't thinking I guess. Not too internet savvy, sorry.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  2. #22
    Aggie's Avatar
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  3. #23

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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ed Sukach @ Apr 14 2003, 08:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ed Sukach @ Apr 11 2003, 12:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I contacted JOBO tech for information on a &quot;Protectan&quot; subtitiute - got a &quot;You&#39;re on the List&quot; answer ... so I&#39;m waiting.
    </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>


    Tetenal decided to stop shipping this to us, despite the fact that it sold well. I don&#39;t know why. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Notice he said they stopped shipping it to them. Now to me that means it might still be available. It might mean a trip to Europe or at least a European website. With the shipping restrictions now in place wouldn&#39;t suprise me if alot of stuff stops being sold.

    I know you said a nitrogen tank costs alot but was that just the gas or was that including the tank cost? If it includes the tank then that&#39;s a one time cost and you need to check the refill cost. I&#39;ve got a CO2 tank for draft and the tank cost me something like &#036;100 years ago. The refill is maybe &#036;20 and it&#39;s a big tank that goes years between fills. Some bars use nitrogen for pumping wine [or they did] and others use a nitrogen tank for Guiness. I&#39;m guessing beverage grade would be good enough?

    I&#39;m suprised he mentioned the torch idea. You know some genius is going to check his fill level with a match.

    It&#39;s still on this website:

    http://www.silverprint.co.uk/chem9.html

  4. #24
    DKT
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Robert @ May 4 2003, 02:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>. I&#39;m guessing beverage grade would be good enough?

    </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    No, it would be best to use the purest grade, some call it "hospital grade". we use a grade 5.0--"oxygen free". I screwed up once & ordered a lower machine type grade & pretty much killed our E6 chemistry, or at least diminished it&#39;s life quite a bit....I&#39;d check with an industrial gas supplier in your area--the tanks aren&#39;t that much money really, once you do the deposit. It&#39;s not like you&#39;d need a fancy regulator either for what you&#39;re doing....

    KT

  5. #25

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    Off the top of my head a person would need

    1) Tank
    2) regulator
    3) A beverage tap. A cheap one aimed at dispensing wine should be fine.
    4) A length of hose and some clamps.

    I think that&#39;s it.

    Beverage grade is pretty pure. Oxygen will cause problems for beer and wine the same way it would for photographic chemicals. I think the problems with lower grades are things other then Oxygen. Wouldn&#39;t oxygen be less of a problem with medical grade nitrogen? I can&#39;t find anything describing beverage grade nitrogen. Well nothing more then calling it pure. I did find medical grade and it does include a very small amount of oxygen. 8ppm



  6. #26
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  7. #27
    DKT
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    you might also want a safety chain or some sort of restraint to hold the tank against a wall...

    KT

  8. #28
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Robert @ May 4 2003, 05:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I know you said a nitrogen tank costs alot but was that just the gas or was that including the tank cost? </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Most gas service companies will not sell a tank to you, they will rent one instead. You pay for delivery and for the gas, then pay a monthly fee for as long as you keep the tank. They won&#39;t refill customer-owned tanks for liability reasons.

    Cost of a &#39;44&#39; tank of high-grade nitrogen: &#036;70 for 200 cu ft.

    Monthly rental: &#036;5-10.

    Delivery and pickup: &#036;0 - &#036;60 typically (I doubt you can get the free delivery with usage rates of less than a tank a week).

    A good two-stage regulator: &#036;300-400. Single-stage regulators (&#036;150-200) might also work, but flow control will change over time as the tank depresurizes.

    Here&#39;s a link about using gaseous nitrogen for the non-researcher:

    http://waltonfeed.com/grain/faqs/ivb2.html

    As a researcher on anaerobic enzymes, we spent a lot of time keeping oxygen out of glove boxes, solutions, and sample storage vessels. We found liquid nitrogen to be the most economical long-term source. LN2 is mostly oxygen free (by virtue of the positive pressure in the storage vessel; LOx will condense in LN2 if a flask of LN2 is exposed to the air for a time) but we did need to use an oxygen trap on the line if we wanted rigorously-pure nitrogen. Nitrogen gas supplied by a big dewar of LN2 (a big sealed dewar) worked fine as the inert gas in the stills we used for making water- and oxygen-free solvents. LN2 is cheap, but the dewars and LP regulators are not (&#036;500-2000, depending on size), and those you do have to buy.

  9. #29
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (b.e.wilson @ May 14 2003, 04:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Most gas service companies will not sell a tank to you, they will rent one instead. You pay for delivery and for the gas, then pay a monthly fee for as long as you keep the tank....
    Cost of a &#39;44&#39; tank of high-grade nitrogen: &#036;70 for 200 cu ft.
    Monthly rental: &#036;5-10.


    Aiee&#33;&#33;

    Tough to try to justify all that for a ~100ml squirt of nitrogen every week or so.

    I&#39;ve got to visit one of the "high-end" Wine retailers. I&#39;ve heard they have "spray" cans of Argon to preserve the contents of opened bottles of wine. So far, no luck finding them on this infernal machine.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  10. #30
    DKT
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    we paid &#036;135 for a recond. Wing Lynch 2 stage regulator. the nitrogen tank is about &#036;100 and we lease the tank itself for a year. we use about two of these, maybe three, but the &#036;100 includes the lease....compared to what the processor cost, the nitrogen is dirt cheap...

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