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  1. #1

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    Hi, I would like to try colour printing. My question is: Where to find information for starting filtration for printing. I use old Meopta Opemus 5 with Meochrom colour head. Films I mostly use are Fuji Superia 100 and 400. OK, I don't have money for analyser, so what is the way to figure out starting filtration, or is there some paper written about it. And in future I would like to do Ilfochrome process, so same question is for slide printing.

    I know more or less about what equipment and chemistry I need, but starting filtration is biggest issue.

    Thanks and regards,

    Haris.
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  2. #2
    Eric Rose's Avatar
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    not every haivng used your type of enlarger it's hard to give you a starting point. essentlally you must get the exposure correct before you begin trying to nail the filter pack. The mistake a lot of beginners make is trying to get the color right before they get the density correct. I use to have a worksheet my students used to guide them to a correct filter pack. If I can find it I will PDF it and email it to you.

    Kodak has a good book called something like Printing Color Negatives and it has a good set of pictures in it that show you what adjustments to make if your print looks (color cast wise) like their examples.

    Color printing is much easier than B&W printing so once you go thru the grunt work of finalizing your filter packs for the various films you use it's clear sailing from there.

    have fun!!
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  3. #3
    clogz's Avatar
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    It's been a long time since I tried colour printing. At the time it was too difficult keeping the temperatures of the various baths right. Nowadays it seems possible to use the dev/stop/bleach fixer at room temperature!
    I can remember that each packet/box of paper came with a recommendation as to a basic filtration.

    All the best

    Hans
    Digital is best taken with a grain of silver.

  4. #4
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EricR @ Apr 27 2003, 09:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
    Color printing is much easier than B&W printing so once you go thru the grunt work of finalizing your filter packs for the various films you use it&#39;s clear sailing from there.
    </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Uh ... I&#39;ve got to disagree here.

    The filtration necessary will vary as much, if not more, with different lots of paper, different lots and "brands" of chemicals, even different sizes of the same color paper.
    Additionally, the color temperature of the light used to produce the exposure will have a major effect on the overall color balance.

    I start each printing session with"test strips", analyzing with a ColorStar 3000 Analyzer. So far, the most stable combination I&#39;ve found has been Ilfocolor paper and JOBO/Tetenal RA4 chemistry.

    Without the Analyzer, the "old" method was to take a "suitable" negative and produce a - what was the name of that print - a series of images using controlled amounts of filtration ... in the center, a correctly balanced image (by trial and error); to the right, three or four images with increasing steps of magenta filtration; to the left, increasing steps of yellow; below, increasing cyan; and in the intermediate radial locations, increasing steps of the combinations of the two values adjacent.
    This, then, would be used to compare "first exposures" and make educated guesses of future filtration.

    Ah... memories. It was a monumental struggle ... that became easier with practice. It still takes some trail and error to arrive at correct filtration without the gray card image, although "averaging" with the ColorStar is helpful. Unfortunately, few images will contain color values that "average" to a neutral gray.

    My best advice would be to get an analyzer ... I have used the ColorStar for quite a while now, and I consider it to be the most important piece of equipment in my darkroom.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  5. #5

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    I use an analyser too, but I also keep around a set of the old Kodak color printing viewing filter kit. Sometimes, I have to print a neg that the analyser won&#39;t pick up correctly, then it&#39;s time to go back to the filters.

    Plus, I&#39;d suggest learning to do it the "Old Fashioned" way with viewing filters before getting an analyser. It&#39;ll train your eyes to "see" necessary filtration.

    When you get a pack of paper, you&#39;ll have a recommended starting filtration pack printed on the paper package. Start with that, then correct with filters until you get a good print. Now, you know the ball park of where your enlarger will get the correct color for that neg and paper.

    Do be sure to get the exposure density correct first. You can get one of those Ilford exposure meters for about 15.00 and it works for B&W & color. It&#39;s a lot cheaper than the whole color analyser and will get you started.

    Also, if your color analyser ever quits, you can still fall back to the "manual" way of doing it until you get the analyser fixed&#33;

  6. #6

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    To get the strating filtration close enough, buy on of the cheap Unicolor or Beseler magic cubes. These are pieces of glass that have different color filtration squares in the surface. You put it on top of the print and diffuse the light and expose the paper. Once you have developed the print you will see many different color squares, the one that is gray is the "correct" filtration. Then, like Doc said, use the color viewing filters to fine tune the color filtration.

    With these cubes you can even guess at the exposure time depending on how light or dark is the "gray" square.

  7. #7
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (docholliday @ Apr 27 2003, 01:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>When you get a pack of paper, you&#39;ll have a recommended starting filtration pack printed on the paper package. Start with that, then correct with filters until you get a good print. Now, you know the ball park of where your enlarger will get the correct color for that neg and paper.
    </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    I&#39;m glad I checked before I replied. There is no information about "starting filtration" on the external packaging of Iford, Agfa or Kodak Color Papers; The data sheets for both Ilford and Agfa have nothing like that... Kodak, in their data sheet suggests:
    "Starting filtration for the white-light method for EKTACOLOR PORTRA Paper is 50M + 50Y; suggested starting filtration for EKTACOLOR PORTRA Paper, Type L, is 50M - 40Y."
    It continues: "Adjust the exposure and color balance as required."

    That has to be a really rough approximation. The color temperature of enlarger lamps varies all over the place - the halogen lamp in my Omega D5500 is something like 3600K - and will vary with age. the incandescent bulb in one of the older enlargers - like my old Omega B22 (? what WAS that model?... ) would be something like 2800K - which would have a marked effect on color balance - to say nothing of the non-standard color correction units in different brands of enlargers. In short ... I&#39;ve never found the "starting filtration recommendation" to be of any practical use.

    Kodak and Iflford also make "Color Correction `Wheels&#39;", an array of different filtration panels that can be used somewhat like a "step wedge" in black and white printing.

    So ... Been there, done that ... got the T-shirt. I know color analyzers cost money - but if you are going to work in color, I can&#39;t in good conscience recommend the struggle that accompanies of going without one.

    The same applies to Grain Focusers - I have three (3) "el cheapos" in my darkroom and one "expensive" Omega. Anyone want one of the cheap ones?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  8. #8

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    I just took a color printing workshop 3 weeks ago and we never even bothered with analyers (but again we had a big sheet fed processor, so it was no big deal to keep trying.)

    I just looked at three boxes of Kodak color paper (1 Endura and 2 Supra) and they all had suggested filtration. Using a Omega Cromega D colorhead I found that I was usually about 5-10 cc lighter in both Y & M (Kodak Portra 160VC 4x5 shot with strobes).

    The best bet is to run a test strip to hit exposure and the use color viewing filters to zero in the filtration. This also helps you figure out a burning and/or dodging that you might want to do.
    The soul never thinks without an image.
    - Aristotle

  9. #9

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    </span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ed Sukach @ Apr 27 2003, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I&#39;m glad I checked before I replied.&nbsp; There is no information about "starting filtration" on the external packaging of Iford, Agfa or Kodak Color Papers; The data sheets for both Ilford and Agfa have nothing like ... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
    Hmm... All my packs of Portra III, Supra III, Supra Endura, Ultra, Crystal Archive "C" from 8x10 to 20x24 and rolls have it printed on the outside of the box. "Test Print Starting Filtration 0C 60M + 45Y" for Supra Endura...

    Even the pack of EktaColor paper I have here that is some 15 years old has it printed on the outside...

  10. #10

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    Oh, and BTW, if you don&#39;t have a voltage stabilizer on your enlarger and can get one for it...do it. If not, you can get a APC Smart-UPS, or any of the good UPS&#39;s that have line conditioning (not the generic Belkin or Tripp-lite junk). A few volts difference (such as when an air condition or refrigerator is starting up) can make the color temperature change enough to make certain colors shift 5 to 10 point + or -&#33;

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