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  1. #1

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    Does anyone have any ideas or solutions to the color shift that happens when one area of a print is either shaded/dodged or burned in? Should I be making a colored shade? Print in two steps with different color adjustments? Help. please.

  2. #2
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Leslie
    Does anyone have any ideas or solutions to the color shift that happens when one area of a print is either shaded/dodged or burned in? Should I be making a colored shade? Print in two steps with different color adjustments? Help. please.
    Printing exposure will have a decided effect on the appearance of color balance in a print, although there is less of a color "shift" than there appears to be. Certainly, one could "split print" using different dichro color filtration, but I haven't done that ... I'll have to try it ... all though I can imagine a complicated process requiring a lot of experimentation and practice.

    Hmmm... colored dodging tools... filters on a stick. Could work - although I have an idea that they would be hard to control and tricky.

    One thing that makes dodging and burning more difficult in color is the sensitivity of color papers. Usually there are shorter exposure times than with black and white - when the f/stop is decreased to allow more time, the image is very dim.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  3. #3

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    Yes, Ed, I think you re-stated my frustration quite well. My concern with a colored or filter dodger is that filters still let the image through somewhat and I'm afraid that the waving about in front of the image will let some of the image through distorted. I'll try it though and let you know.

    I tried tri color printing last night to see if I could better control which colors are dodged/burned in. It was better but time consuming. I have 324 images to resolve this for, so the time cost will be frustrating with tri color. Again, something like the tri tone separation using hard line negatives that don millikan mentions in another thread might be adaptable to this problem, but to do so for so many images would be nuts.

    Thanks so much for the quick response.

  4. #4

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    J., color shifts may result from short exposures. Your lamp has a heat up and cool down phase where the color temperature is low and will affect your filter settings. Although this is only a fraction of a second, it will become significant at shorter exposure times. Try keeping (partial) exposure times higher.

  5. #5

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    Hi Thilo,

    I'm J.Leslie, anyway. I have run probably close to 200 tests at different aperatures and exposures. In doing those I found that what you say is true, although I further found that the ambient temperature of the lite box itself has more effect than the exposure time itself. For expample if it take me a while to set up my shot and the lite box gets over 130. I set tests for
    f5.6 4 secs, f8 8s, and f22 64s and they all look the essentially the same.
    Then I let the deck cool to its pre-warmed 95-100 F degrees and do the same. This set also matches closely, BUT they look nothing like the first set.
    Since I started trying to bring in color, my thoughts were similar to yours, but this test has me reconsidering the importance of the length of shot and more about how long it took me to set up. I also drilled 30 or more holes in my light deck to help it cool faster, since it seems easier to maintain the cooler temps than the warmer ones.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  6. #6

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    Doesn't somebody make a shutter for enlargers? Basically you leave it on more or less all the time. No need to worry about warm up/cool down.

  7. #7

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    Yes, mine have shutters, but because my light deck is flourescent, the lights sit at a warm glow stage till the shutter/timer boots, then the machine kicks the lights to full. When the shutter/timer kicks off, the lights go back to glow.
    Embrace **it! **it. . .just another name for fertilizer. . . Grow baby Grow!

  8. #8

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    J.Leslie, if you are using a closed loop system, light switch phases are not your problem. Does your Enlarger have an IR filter? The cyan sensitive color layer of your paper is IR sensitive, too. IR light does have different straylight characteristics. It may e.g. be reflected by black walls.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Leslie
    Yes, Ed, I think you re-stated my frustration quite well. My concern with a colored or filter dodger is that filters still let the image through somewhat and I'm afraid that the waving about in front of the image will let some of the image through distorted. I'll try it though and let you know.

    I tried tri color printing last night to see if I could better control which colors are dodged/burned in. It was better but time consuming. I have 324 images to resolve this for, so the time cost will be frustrating with tri color. Again, something like the tri tone separation using hard line negatives that don millikan mentions in another thread might be adaptable to this problem, but to do so for so many images would be nuts.

    Thanks so much for the quick response.
    Interesting thread and the thoughts that have been expressed are pertinent. I have not worked with color in a number of years and the thoughts that I have on the subject may not be workable. However I will propose them anyway.

    Sharp masking should be as applicable to color as it is to my darkroom practices in black and white. Sharp masks are very precise burning and dodging tools. As such they are density initiated. By using lithographic half tone film contact exposed to the original camera negative, the appropriate interpositive (for dodging purposes) and second generation sharp negative (burning purposes) could very easily be produced. This would insure greater repeatability when a large number of the same print are required. Additionally this would allow very precise burning with color filtration adjustments should that be appropriate (albeit, the adjustments would need to be determined by actual trial in your darkroom and with your materials).

    As an additional thought and aside from the conventional printing and possible sharp masking I have mentioned, it would seem that using lithographic materials that one could do color separation masking by producing the appropriate color separations much as the matrices are in dye transfer printing. I would think that if one were to do this that the color fidelity would be greater then any other process currently in use.

    The downside to both of the processes which I proposed is that very precise pin registration methods would need to be employed. However one additional benefit would be that if one were doing Ilfochrome the method to do unsharp contrast masking would already be in place.

    As I initially stated, these are my thoughts on processes that are not currently being employed, at least to my knowledge. It might be interesting for someone to pick up the banner and work these out.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by dnmilikan
    Sharp masking should be as applicable to color as it is to my darkroom practices in black and white.
    Don,
    all kinds of masking techiques are applicable to color, too. But since color is an additional "dimension", you might need to dodge/burn to enhance color as well (or give it the expression you like). This can usually not be archived by means of masking. Another obstacle is that you cannot use ortho film for masking in this case. There is also a big difference in handling color negative vs. color reversal prints. Reversal paper has a very low paper grade and is thus more immune to all kinds of color shifts. CN paper on the other hand is very critical to filter settings and light quality.

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