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  1. #21

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    I'm scanning the negatives now. My scanner is pulling out far more detail than I can make out with my naked eye (or even with a loupe), but the results are still pretty awful. The image, such as it is, is in color, so the CD4-based developers have done something. Contrary to what I wrote above, there are images on the first half of the roll (developed with the Svema developer formula but with CD4 instead of CD1); they're invisible to the naked eye, but my scanner is miraculously pulling very poor images off the film. The NCF-41 half seems better (or perhaps I should say less awful) than the Svema developer half. Perhaps the film's age (16 years past date) is such that the dyes have just deteriorated past the point of producing anything more than ghosts of images. If so, maybe I'll be able to at least use the film as a B&W film.

    PE, do you think there's any point in trying this with CD-3 rather than CD-4?

  2. #22
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    CD-4 is more active. So, you have a better chance with CD-4 than CD-3.

    PE

  3. #23

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    Then I think it's unlikely I'll get much out of this film. FWIW, I put up the best frame from the roll on Flickr.

  4. #24
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    Looks like overdevelopment in the first developer.

    PE

  5. #25

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    Once again, PE, there's just one developer. You may be confused because I said I cut the roll in half and developed each half a different way, so I mentioned two developers, but each half of the roll was developed once, resulting in negatives. The shot I posted was developed in NCF-41, which worked better (or perhaps I should say "less badly") than the modified Svema developer I also tried. There's considerable fog (and/or the base color is unusually dark) and the image is very faint above that fog.

  6. #26
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    Yes, sorry. I'm still thinking reversal.

    It is hard to tell, due to any changes that may have been introduced by the scanner. And, sincd CD1 is more reactive than CD4, this could be the fog introduced by a long time in an underactive developer. I really cannot tell but the image looks low in contrast and foggy. If the original negative was low in density overall and foggy, then the color developer was too inactive, but if it is dense and foggy, then the developer or time were too much.

    Can you scan as a negative with no changes whatsoever?

    PE

  7. #27

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    When I set VueScan's "color balance" option to "none," the image is completely black. The best I can do to show you the nature of the image is this photo, which was taken with my digital camera, holding the negative against a window. This is blurry and you can see shadows of trees within the negative area, but you can also see where the frame boundary is, as well as a hint of the image -- you can just make out the tree line that's clearly visible in the scan.

    Descriptively, the negatives are darker than normal C-41 negatives, but they aren't completely black. I don't know how dark the base for this film was supposed to be, but assuming no darker than most C-41 films, there's substantial fogging going on. That could be age-related, though -- remember that this film is 16 years past date. The image density above that fog or color mask is very low. I don't have a densitometer, but I'd guess that the darkest parts of the negatives aren't as dense as the darkest parts of a C-41 negative with a good range of brightness recorded.

    This particular frame was developed in NCF-41. This produced better results than the Svema formula with CD-4 substituted for CD-1. (I doubled the amount of CD-4 vs. what the formula specified for CD-1. This resulted in a developer with an amount of CD-4 that's similar to the amount of CD-4 in the conventional C-41 developer formulas that are available on the Internet -- 4.6 g/l of CD-4, to be precise.)

    I'm thinking of trying a bleach-bypass process. My reasoning is that this might give a relatively good B&W image with just a hint of color.

  8. #28
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    Looks like total fog to me.

    With bleach bypass you will leave in the CLS yellow silver layer and the image will have an added overall yellow cast. It might work though. You might also try D-76 for about 10 minutes at 68 in a normal B&W process to see what the fog level is. If it looks better than the color image, something is wrong with the color developer or the time/temp combination.

    PE

  9. #29
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    I’m quite puzzled by the title of this thread:

    Orwo 5166 is a CN process which first showed up in 1973 when even Orwo had films with integrated mask

    Agfa CN 17 is a CN film, much older and unmasked btw…

  10. #30
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    Yes, CN film is negative, unmasked and very soft. It used a very old process that ORWO used after the war and then was taken over by the Soviet film companies. It was processed at 68 - 75 deg F. I have quite a few rolls of it that I used in the 50s and 60s.

    PE

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