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  1. #21
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Nothing. But I do know that there is some graphics art work in OK. That is quite tiny though.

    PE

  2. #22

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    Photo Engineer,

    That is true, but remember that the CEO has to explain things to the shareholders, many of whom do not possess a degree in business, so they may not fully understand what is going on except for numbers (profit earnings, share prices, dividends) and what their broker tells them. If they see a film giant doing things that do not make sense to the them, (but makes sense to the CEO and the board of directors) the investor loses faith in the corporation and dumps their shares. Or, in my case, does not purchase shares of Eastman-Kodak to begin with. As things are explained on APUG, the members get a "feel" for what is going on (perhaps it is incorrect, perhaps not) and makes investment choices (I am sure many of us on APUG own at least one share of something or another). Sometimes it behooves a corporation to go against what their college textbook in business suggested, so as to appease their shareholders and sell more stock. I highly doubt that shareholders and customers appreciate last second discontinuation notices (or other behavior deemed to be unsavory).

  3. #23
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Alexander;

    I have met and talked with 5 of the last 5 CEOs of Kodak. I've made presentations to two of them before I retired. In 2005, I had a chance to talk to Antonio Perez personally at a luncheon about the exit from the B&W paper business. Believe me, he was not happy over this, and none of them enjoyed cancelling products or projects after investing millions in them.

    Sometimes, you have to cut your losses.

    As the only person here speaking a little about what goes on within Kodak, I can say that things often have one meaning inside and another outside of the yellow jello (as we called it affectionately). On the whole, Tony Perez is doing his best with a very very difficult situation by trying to make the "elephant dance" as Walt Fallon said when he was prez of EK. So, I understand the POV of outsiders, but I don't go along with unfounded or unwonted criticism of choices which are actually the best of a rather bad lot when you get down to it.

    I think they are doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt, and the new Ektar 100 shows that R&D and new analog products are coming along. AAMOF, the total number of R&D people working on analog are about equal to the total number of employees at Ilford. This is no disrespect of Ilford. I use a lot of Ilford products. It is simply a fact. Kodak's analog program is larger than Ilford's and maybe even Fuji's.

    PE

  4. #24
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    One aspect that has not been mentioned is the environmental impact of processing Kodachrome. I had heard that less strict environmental laws in Kansas is one of the reasons that the only K-14 plant is located there. Stricter laws in other states forced the closure of the other K-14 processing plants.

    PE, any truth here? Is the K-14 effluent problematic? Will we find the next K-14 plant located in Tijuana?

    Terry

  5. #25
    Polybun
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    I think they are doing the best they can with the hand they were dealt, and the new Ektar 100 shows that R&D and new analog products are coming along. AAMOF, the total number of R&D people working on analog are about equal to the total number of employees at Ilford. This is no disrespect of Ilford. I use a lot of Ilford products. It is simply a fact. Kodak's analog program is larger than Ilford's and maybe even Fuji's.

    PE
    Sounds to me like they have more managers than engineers. Honestly, at this point, the best thing that could happen to film photography would be for kodak to just stop and get out of the way. They have grown too large to serve any real usefull purpose. If anything, Ektar 100 proves that point. I don't think kodak really get it anymore.

  6. #26

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    Photo Engineer,

    I highly respect the chemical engineers and other researchers at Eastman-Kodak. The only people that I take issue with are those who ultimately are responsible for last second discontinuation notices. I would be much happier if they gave me three months to stock up on supplies before exhaustion. What about all of the scientists that require a very specific Kodak film for their decades of research to come to fruition? At least give these people who supported Kodak for decades, and are trying to improve the struggles of humanity, a chance to stock up on their film of choice, so that they can complete their research. No person who has devoted their life to improving society should have years of their life discarded in a mere instant with the issuance of a notice of discontinuation. I all ask for is a little more time, and I shall stand firm in saying that is not too much to ask when it can benefit society.

    -Alexander

  7. #27
    Polybun
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    You guys have never had any experience in the real world of business, have you?

    PE
    No, we haven't, this is obvious from the fact that we make logical choices. Logic and business have nothing in common I have noticed. A gorilla probably understands business more than most of us. Sling poo, see what sticks.

  8. #28
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    I'm not saying I may not love the new Ektar, however, one must remember that ektar is a replacement for the UC line of films. It is yet another try by kodak to gain market share. However, for the people who have been shooting Velvia 50 since 1990, a product lifespan of 4 years isn't gaining kodak any of their favor if photographers can't get used to a film before it's discontinued. It is my firm belief that it kodak had real confidence in Ektar that they would release it in other formats. I can only hope that people will like it enough and buy it so that they release it in 120, however, there seems to be little market and when kodak says "the plan is to release Ektar in 35mm," that is a polite way of saying they have absolutely no plans to do so.

    Kodachrome is great and cool but it's not available in anything but 35mm which simply doesn't contain much surface area. I could see myself using it for panoramic shots if I try that, but regular 35mm is too grainy. If 25 was still out that might persuade me but since the kodachrome is several decades old, a 64 speed has the grain of a 200 or 400 today. Ektar 25 was just 20 years ago and it got 2 more stops in that time.

  9. #29
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    AFAIK, the Kodachrome effluent is rather similar to E6 except for the couplers present. That increases BOD and COD a bit.

    As for the other comments, I'm used to Kodak bashing here on APUG and there is no surer way of ruining the company and products than undue criticism. I never said they were perfect, but they are trying hard. OTOH, perhaps the other companies products seem to hang around due to lack of R&D. Could this be true? About 30 years ago, no one complained this way when E4 products led to E6 products and etc and C-22 to C-41. Strange isn't it?

    PE

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polybun View Post
    Honestly, at this point, the best thing that could happen to film photography would be for kodak to just stop and get out of the way.
    Polybun--with all due respect, in this thread you really don't know when to quit stepping on it, it seems. Do you think you really know more about what's going on at EK than Photo Engineer, who worked there for three decades? I won't bother recapitulating the counterarguments that have been offered in this thread, since you haven't bothered with them anyway.

    I have no affiliation with Kodak other than as a satisfied customer of four decades' duration; honestly, it seems for you and others, Kodak can do no right. They update old products and offer a new one, and you and others complain. You really don't have any idea how a business is run, do you?

    Mindless Kodak bashing is really tiresome. Go enjoy the new or improved products; buy some so Kodak will continue to make them. This simple act of market capitalism will do more to secure the future of film-based photography than filling APUG's servers with online whining.
    Michael Sebastian
    Website | Blog

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