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  1. #41
    wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polybun View Post
    My point exactly. I don't think the engineers are to blame, its the people at top. They want digital, they want that cheap investment with big returns, to hell with the quality.

    Fuji continue to blow my mind with the amount of new products and improvements they make every year. Every year its something new from them. To come along and make even a tenative commitment to picking up the slack where poloroid is leaving off, that really suprises me. Granted, Fuji were making a good portion of poloroids film stock for them anyway, but its still not something you see kodak doing is it!
    Then they don't want digital, you spend an infinitely expanding amount of money for an infinitely contracting level of improvement. Case in point, take digital sensors, the jump from 1MP to 2MP is a 100% improvement, from 10MP to 12MP is a 20% improvement, thing is, while many customers were happy with upgrading from 1MP to 2MP, the improvement from 10MP to 12MP is not enough for most customers to want to upgrade, also as those improvements get narrower, more of your market gets to the point where they are long term happy with what they have. If the biggest print you will ever make is an 8x10 your not going to even notice a 10MP to 12MP change....

    Film is just about the perfect market, your customers tend to buy the same products over and over again, so you don't need to spend a lot on R&D. The last advancement was the chromogenic stuff, colour films pretending to be B&W, coming up with a black dye coupler couldn't have cost much, and they use it in all three layers. That's been around for what, 5 years now, before that it was T-grain, and that was over 15 years ago. E6 processing was 30 years ago, and C41 is just as old if not older. Small advances have been made over time to all of them, but it's no where near as expensive as the tens of millions to develop a new digital sensor.

    I don't know about others, but I use mostly Fuji for my colour film work, and it was that way for a long time. For B&W, Ilford all the way.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSeb View Post
    ...with all due respect...
    On the other hand, Ilford wants and would benefit if Kodak got out of the B/W market.

    Ray

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    The last advancement was the chromogenic stuff, colour films pretending to be B&W, coming up with a black dye coupler couldn't have cost much, and they use it in all three layers. That's been around for what, 5 years now...
    Try 28 years. Ilford XP-1 was introduced in 1980.

    Lee

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    As for the other comments, I'm used to Kodak bashing here on APUG and there is no surer way of ruining the company and products than undue criticism. I never said they were perfect, but they are trying hard. OTOH, perhaps the other companies products seem to hang around due to lack of R&D. Could this be true? About 30 years ago, no one complained this way when E4 products led to E6 products and etc and C-22 to C-41. Strange isn't it?

    PE
    PE,

    I don't get it either, the K-bashing that is. I am just thankful that my 12-year old mailers were honored from wherever they were processed. I am coming back from a 12 year hiatus away from film and I am, quite frankly amazed that K-14, E-6, C-41 films are still readily available, at least where I live.

    Anyway, here is what started this inquiry. The first batch came back in the black box with no-name mounts, returned via Swan Photo Labs from Dwayne's. The second batch I sent directly to Dwayne's and was returned in the Kodak box and mounts. Both were sent in pre-paid mailers. Note the Texas return address.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Dwaynes K64.jpg  

  5. #45

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    The top box and mount are provided for send out services, such as Wal-Mart.

    The bottom box and envelope (though these days, I get large packages sent via Priority Mail from Dwayne's) are provided when you use a Kodak mailer.

    Not too confusing, I hope. Go shoot more film, since you missed so much film-goodness in 12 years!

    Happy shooting!

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Ghaffari View Post
    Well Kodak R&Ded Kodachrome 400, but that was never released. Also, Ektar 100 was not released in 120, although Kodak could use the same base as 135 format. Actually, I would prefer Kodak to keep a film the same after it is released, since I get used to it and know what to expect, and instead focus on new films like...like...umm...oh, like Ektar 100...and...ummm...yeah, Ektar 100.

    I think Kodak is in it for the money, of course, but it is not that which bothers me (I am a Capitalist pig, myself), it is their attitude problem. Like when Kodak discontinues a unique film with a few weeks' warning before all existing stock is sold. I have a problem with that. Especially how they were saying that they were not going to discontinue Kodak HIE up until, BAM, the announcement that they had in autumn 2007. Fuji has no attitude problem...

    Foma, Efke, AGFA-Gevaert, and FilmoTec have/had no attitude problems.
    There are two schools of thought on discontinuing a product, the first is to wait until your stocks are very low, as people will not want to buy a discontinued product. The second school says, announce that a product is discontinued while you still have lots on hand, as it may re-start the market for the product, so that you can very quietly cancel plans to discontinue later on.

    The first school is advisable when the announcement coincides with announcing a new and improved replacement product. The second school is advisable when there is no real replacement product in the pipeline. Of course sometimes there is no replacement product, because they think the market is dead in that area. Thing is, there is often someone waiting to prove you wrong.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  7. #47
    wogster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee L View Post
    Try 28 years. Ilford XP-1 was introduced in 1980.

    Lee
    Really? I stand corrected.....
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwagoshi View Post
    PE,

    I don't get it either, the K-bashing that is. I am just thankful that my 12-year old mailers were honored from wherever they were processed. I am coming back from a 12 year hiatus away from film and I am, quite frankly amazed that K-14, E-6, C-41 films are still readily available, at least where I live.

    Anyway, here is what started this inquiry. The first batch came back in the black box with no-name mounts, returned via Swan Photo Labs from Dwayne's. The second batch I sent directly to Dwayne's and was returned in the Kodak box and mounts. Both were sent in pre-paid mailers. Note the Texas return address.


    The return address is in Texas, but if you look at the postmark, it says "mailed from 67357", which is Parsons, KS. I think that Kodak just provides the mounts, boxes, and mailing envelopes (with a real Kodak address) for Dwayne's, who processes, mounts, boxes, and ships the film.

  9. #49

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    Just send it straight to Dwayne's. Or you could hand it to a nice person at Wal-Mart for half of Dwayne's price. Maybe you'll get slides back and maybe you won't.

    Mail directly to Dwayne's.

  10. #50

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    It used to cost half, Wal-Mart film developing prices shot up a few dollars per service. Id est 36 exp. Kodachrome used to cost $4.88 for development now costs $6.88.

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