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  1. #11
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Well, a totally fogged piece of good or bad paper should be white in a good process, and an unexposed piece of good paper should be black in a good process. An unexposed piece of bad paper should be "something" in a good process and that depends on the nature of the aging process.

    So, your results are odd to say the least. They indicate perhaps a mix of bad paper and process, but I'm not sure.

    If you have B&W paper, a small test strip should blacken totally in the developer in about 1 - 2 minutes. There is nothing really to test the bleach solution short of a dye bleach material.

    PE

  2. #12

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    I have found over the years that the chemistry goes bad faster than most people think, and the original P30-P powdered chemicals really don't do that well near the expiration date. I have also found that the new chemicals which are all liquids also don't have much of a shelf life.

    Old paper just complicates the entire troubleshooting process.

  3. #13
    rossawilson1's Avatar
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    Well I'm ordering a whole new batch of everything.. I'll be back if this mystery returns!

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by rossawilson1 View Post
    Well I'm ordering a whole new batch of everything.. I'll be back if this mystery returns!
    That's where I am too..... wasted the last 2 days in the darkroom

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by uwphotoer View Post
    I have found over the years that the chemistry goes bad faster than most people think, and the original P30-P powdered chemicals really don't do that well near the expiration date. I have also found that the new chemicals which are all liquids also don't have much of a shelf life.

    Old paper just complicates the entire troubleshooting process.
    Powders usually last much longer then liquids, it really depends though on what is in the stuff, some chemicals will break down quicker in the presence of other chemicals. Which is why you can find a bag of some B&W developers from 1978 in a back corner of the darkroom and unless it's been wet, it will still work like new. Other chemistries if the expiration date is December 4, 2008 then toss it, it's no good anymore. This is a common problem for colour chemistries though. You can only buy a 5 gallon kit, you have to mix the whole thing and then use it up within 24 hours. Kinda makes you wonder if the best thing for the home processor is to buy the individual chemicals, then mix up your own in small quantities with a chemist's scale. I've seen recipes for C41, E6 and IIRC RA4, wonder if any one has them for the Ilfochrome chems....
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  6. #16

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    The trick with Ilfochrome chems is the catalist which is present in the developer and bleach. For testing purposes dektol can be substitued for the developer, the print can be put back in the bleach for longer times and any amoinium thiosulfate non hardening fix will work. This is only for trouble shooting but it is frequently interesting.

  7. #17
    rossawilson1's Avatar
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    I usually only mix up 500ml at a time. Before when this was working I found I could get 7 8x10's from this much without any noticeable shift or other problems. Kinda works out well because that's my average for doing 2-3 of good prints in one session from the same film.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by wogster View Post
    Powders usually last much longer then liquids, it really depends though on what is in the stuff, some chemicals will break down quicker in the presence of other chemicals. Which is why you can find a bag of some B&W developers from 1978 in a back corner of the darkroom and unless it's been wet, it will still work like new. Other chemistries if the expiration date is December 4, 2008 then toss it, it's no good anymore. This is a common problem for colour chemistries though. You can only buy a 5 gallon kit, you have to mix the whole thing and then use it up within 24 hours. Kinda makes you wonder if the best thing for the home processor is to buy the individual chemicals, then mix up your own in small quantities with a chemist's scale. I've seen recipes for C41, E6 and IIRC RA4, wonder if any one has them for the Ilfochrome chems....
    The new ilfochrome chemistry is all liquid, and each step is in a 1 L bottle.... so you add an equal amount of water to get a 2 L mix...... which is what I need for the Ilford processor CAP 40 that I use.... but in a day I can exhaust the chemicals.... I can run over 40 8x10...... however 10 - 16x20's will kill it just as fast....

    The big problem I heard about from Ilford was getting a good mix of those powered chemicals.... About 10 years ago I had 10 of the P30-P mixes that had all sorts of problems getting a good print out of. After contacting them they told me the problem and sent me 10 more mixes. They told me they had a tough time getting the powders to mix evenly before packaging and that is one of the reasons they went back to the liquid solutions.

  9. #19
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    I just got back into analog printing expressly for Ilfochrome - got a good deal on an enlarger (Philips PCS2000) that included some old P30 chemistry (liquid/powder 1L x 2 formula) and 50 sheets of CPM.1M 8x10 (expiration 2001). Have no idea how it was stored, but after playing with it tonight, discovered probably not so well <g>.

    First test strip: fogged portion processed (when dry) as dark blue; the covered portion was black. Then tried a couple of test prints with the enlarger - had to crank exposure up to 75 seconds as an 8x10 with lens wide open to show a faint image. It's obviously bad paper and/or chemistry, but wow, it is great to see the magic emerge from the tube - sure beats watching ink dry!!!

    I will call up Freestyle Monday and place an order for new P30 and paper. Sure would have been nice if the "freebies" had still been good <g>.

  10. #20

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    Dont feel bad, my 2001 dated paper was stored in the freezer and it is toast.


    Wayne

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