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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazzy View Post
    Leica has announced a medium format camera?? I don't remember seeing anything about that here.
    Sorry to say, it will not be analogue.

  2. #12

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    Really great work!

  3. #13
    A90
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    Good work Marco, i've learned a lot from you comparisation. Impressive !!

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    Domaz, actually your statement " the two big names don't and have never made Medium Format or larger glass" is incorrect. Nikon is/was a very reputable large format lensmaker, and same goes for Fuji. There are also rumours that Nikon is readying a new "MX" medium format to go up against the comparable Leica that was recently announced. It's true that Canon has no MF/LF basis.

    At any rate, it's probably true that all the digital cameramakers have to go medium format now; there is no other room for growth in 35mm, apart from piling on more and more gadgetry. My own prediction is that there will be a ~36x36 format out of these companies before long.
    The problem is that it's much more difficult to do, the sensor is going to cost at least twice the cost of a similar level 35mm sized sensor, plus they need to design a camera in a format they are not familiar with, nearly every part is a bigger size and different dimension then what they are used to working with..... Another point is that the size of the market is limited, which makes it expensive, I would expect a Canon or Nikon 36x36 DSLR to be about the same price is a Hassy and the Hassy can still be used as a film camera with a different back.
    Paul Schmidt
    See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com

    The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....

  5. #15
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    I have to tenously disagree a bit, Paul, though bear in mind that I'm not an industry insider and am merely shooting from the hip like everyone else! Here is my prediction. The SLR concept will be abandoned entirely, in favour of a more rangefindery design with electronic view finder and aux finder. I know, I know, it's gonna suck, yadda yadda... whatever, it will happen IMHO. Once you set aside the mirror box, the design becomes much easier. Many existing lenses can cover slightly larger-than-full-frame and overall this will provide the cameramakers with an opportunity to hawk a whole new batch of lenses. The sensor cost is not as much an issue as it once was, that trail has been blazed and there are fab facilities that can do it now for reasonable cost.

    Just based on ZD pricing etc. my guess is that these new offerings will come in far below the current MF digital options- circa $10k or so.

    ...and I'll still be very happily shooting film on my mamiya 6es
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    Domaz, actually your statement " the two big names don't and have never made Medium Format or larger glass" is incorrect. Nikon is/was a very reputable large format lensmaker, and same goes for Fuji. There are also rumours that Nikon is readying a new "MX" medium format to go up against the comparable Leica that was recently announced. It's true that Canon has no MF/LF basis.

    At any rate, it's probably true that all the digital cameramakers have to go medium format now; there is no other room for growth in 35mm, apart from piling on more and more gadgetry. My own prediction is that there will be a ~36x36 format out of these companies before long.
    Nikon hasn't made LF lenses for years now and I beleive the same is true for Fuji (though I maybe incorrect.)

    I would be curious to know where you have heard your rumors about the a Nikon "MX". Leica's new MF camera is going to have a very limited market and that just isn't Nikon's style of marketing and manufacturing, but time will tell.
    Don Bryant

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    Many existing lenses can cover slightly larger-than-full-frame and overall this will provide the cameramakers with an opportunity to hawk a whole new batch of lenses.
    The problem with legacy lenses used on DSLRs is that they create a lot of flare and are probably not always optimized for the pitch of the digital light receptors reducing resolution. So contrast is lost and resolution suffers.

    From my own tests I have found that some Zuiko lenses work very well on Canon bodies and generally Nikkor lenses do not. Both can have noticible blue fringing with some lenses that are very sharp otherwise, but some of the older medium grade Canons perform poorly as well (bad CA).
    Don Bryant

  8. #18
    DBP
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazzy View Post
    Leica has announced a medium format camera?? I don't remember seeing anything about that here.
    It's a digicam, therefore not covered here. And it is only medium format by digital standards - 30x45mm, which is roughly the size of half frame vest pocket (i.e. 16 on 127).

  9. #19
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    I tested "full frame" lenses on DX cameras and never saw any evidence of flare or stray light issues. The whole DX lens thing is/was marketing bullshit IMHO. In the years that I had a DX digital toy, I possessed one and only one DX lens... which I quickly sold! I (and others) saw zero evidence of loss of resolution or contrast when using full frame lenses on DX. Mind you, I have only fast primes like the 50/1.2 and 105/1.8, so I am in fact talking about lenses that are more prone to flare in the first place. Frankly the only comments I did see on those issues were straight out of advertising for reduced-format lenses, and people do tend to parrot those statements so much that people start to believe them. If I had seen those issues then I would've simply made baffles for myself for a few cents rather than buy DX lenses.

    And as for Oly, well they made it sound like there would be a big gain in compactness with their 2x crop sensor, but it isn't so. Their cameras are not appreciably smaller than DX or full frame... and they're still huge compared to, for example, a 35mm film RF like an XA. I had a d40x that was about the same size as the smallest olys and it had better noise performance.

    Anyway, enough about this digital point. This was a very nice piece of work that Marco did, thanks again for that!
    Last edited by keithwms; 01-17-2009 at 12:58 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  10. #20
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    Oh, about the rumours of MX, I predicted years ago that this would have to happen because the dslr makers would hit a brick wall of optical physics. As I recall, from a simple calculation it was clear that ~25mp would be the brick wall, and then it'd just be a matter of trying to max out signal/noise by building full frame foveon sensors ($$$). Then about a half year ago rumours started to crop up (on the official rumours site and elsewhere; that is where the term "MX" appeared, allegedly from a "spy" photo showing that Nikon plans to go beyond full frame.. who knows...). And this happened in the context of the leica announcement, so now it has a lot of people going hmm. Anyway I don't live my life by rumours, and am not in any way claiming inside info, I am merely (re)stating the fact that once you get to the diffraction limit, you have to think beyond 35mm full frame... or kiss market growth goodbye. Some people will think it's cool to make full frame movies but that's not enough of a growth sector.

    Apologies for the digichat! I will henceforth maintain my silence on this issue
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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