Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,566   Posts: 1,545,386   Online: 1059
      
Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 64
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    San Jose, CA, USA
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    118

    Kodachrome as B&W Neg

    I have some exposed PKR120 that I want to try to save the images on. It has been kept deep frozen for a very long time. Is there any information on how to process this as a B&W Neg Film anywhere?

    I hear it requires a high contrast developer like D19???


    ~Steve Sloan

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    92
    I'd suggest you get some KR in 35mm format, make lots of identical exposures at ISO 64, and process them in different ways, to see which method yields the best results for you. Then use that for your 120 film.

    Some things you need to know about: Kodachrome has a remjet backing which needs to be removed either before processing (preferable, if you can manage it in total darkness) or after. Secondly, there's a yellow filter in the film that you cannot get rid of if you process into a negative. Thus the negatives might be hard to print from optically, but they should scan fine. If you do reversal processing, the yellow filter will go away.

    Good luck!

  3. #3
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    You'll need to compensate for spped loss. Generally it needs to be processed as a positive reversal. This is tricky because you don't know how it has fared. There are directions, but you need to remove the remjet backing using a solution of sodium sulfite (1 T per liter) and then develop in D19. You bleach it and clear it, and then re expose to room light. Then develop in anything (reuse the d19) for the positive image. If you're off you won't get good images and blow the highlights or shadows. It's risky at best.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    124
    I've read recommendations for Rocky Mountain Film for old film processing services. You'll need to contact them to discuss processing options for your particular film; for some Kodachrome films/formats they process to color slides, but for others the only remaining option is to process to B&W as you suggested.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Finland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    92
    Quote Originally Posted by John W View Post
    I've read recommendations for Rocky Mountain Film for old film processing services.
    Have you really? I've read mostly horror stories about them. Here's a few: http://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/005jsk

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    124
    Quote Originally Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom View Post
    Have you really? I've read mostly horror stories about them. Here's a few: http://photo.net/film-and-processing-forum/005jsk
    Wow! I stand corrected; apparently whomever I caught that reference from wasn't actually a customer... Thanks for the notice.

  7. #7
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawai'i
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    17,290
    Images
    20
    I noticed that we don't seem to have a thread dedicated to this topic (if we do, please link to it, and we can merge it), and I suspect it will now become quite important, so I've retitled this thread that was originally about Kodachrome 120 for general discussion of processing Kodachrome as B&W neg and made it a sticky.

    Anyone with some actual experience shooting Kodachrome as b/w neg? If my K64 didn't make it to Dwayne's in time, I might need to know!
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  8. #8
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,420
    Images
    2
    ditto
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  9. #9
    michaelbsc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    South Carolina
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,106
    Images
    5
    Hey, I've got a whole brick of 120 in the freezer. I'm just waiting for the opportunity to kidnap PE and tie him in the barn until he figures out how to do it as color reversal using two sticks.

    In the mean time, I'll bet DR5 knows how.
    Last edited by michaelbsc; 12-30-2010 at 02:31 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Horsham, PA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    751
    The next two posts are information from Martin Baumgarten of Plattsburgh Photographic Services. It is intended to deal with cine film, but most of this applies to still film as well.
    [1 of 2]

    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Baumgarten
    ---> KODACHROME Processed as Black & White <----- [October 2010]

    Yes, KODACHROME can be processed as Black & White, I do it all the time here. In fact, in default, so can virtually ALL photographic films. KODACHROME is a triple layer matrixed B&W film in reality [matrixed with gelatin filter layers for the 3 primary colors], and color dyes are added by 3 separate Color Developers relative to the formation of the Positive silver during the reversal process. All black metallic silver is removed during the Bleach and Fixer stages in the end, leaving only the positive color dyes. There's more to it than that, but that's it in a nutshell for this part of my answer.

    Since KODACHROME is really only a B&W film, it is most often processed as a B&W Negative, usually done for all the old K-12 films and K-14 films that were exposed years ago but never processed. They have to be done as a Negative, since Reversal processing would leave a faint muddy image if anything at all, due to the severity of the age fog in the film. This is what is done for such old films here at PPS, at Film Rescue, and also at Rocky Mountain Film Lab (if they're still operating these days). To save images from those old films, that is the only way to process them, using a high contrast technical developer adjusted for the age of the film, and any resulting images then transferred to a video format (nominally DVD) and returned to the customer along with the film original.

    However, IF the film is good stock, meaning having been cold stored since new and virtually as good as new, OR film of recent manufacture...... it can be processed as EITHER a Negative or Positive (via B&W Reversal processing). What does it look like? Pretty good if the film has been cold-stored. As a Negative, depending on what developer is used, it will have nice even tones and can be used to telecine the images just as with any negative stock. As a Positive image, done via B&W Reversal processing, the film looks pretty good, but is grainier than what we're used to expect out of KODACHROME. The reason is because processed as Color Reversal, the dyes overlap each other and are themselves virtually devoid of grain. The grain we see is the ghost image of the grain from the original B&W Positive image that is necessary to create the Color Dye image. So, yes, it's pretty good, just grainier, and grainier than PLUS-X 7276 or 7265......but less grainy than TRI-X 7278 or 7266.

    This is one reason I'm not worried about using up my KMA Sound filmstock, since it can still be processed as B&W and I'd rather have B&W Sound film, than no sound film at all; or try to race and use up what I have just to use it up and have to pay all the processing costs to do that, without really having enough time to use it properly for some project. But it is somewhat expensive to have it processed this way at any of the labs, unless you wish to tackle it yourself...which is quite doable if you have the equipment: processing tank system, film rewind setup, darkroom trays, photograde sponge (to physically wipe the remjet off with the Borax Bath solution), chemistry etc.

    Also, done as B&W Reversal, it can also be Sepia toned just like the other B&W Reversal films, and that gives it a nice look. I'll try to run some tests here when I get out of this busy holiday photography season, and post some frame grab results. Lastly, since the film is silver-rich, it really needs the previous B&W Reversal process........otherwise, if using the D-94a and new Bleach, you'd have to make some adjustments to the Development time and also extend the Bleaching time out. There's some other factors involved here as well in processing, development time aside....and the worst factor is the removal of the Remjet Anti-Halation Backing, which when processing manually, must be done after processing, and slowly by hand using a Borax bath, and then a rewash afterward. A reminder here though, if you have old films that were shot long ago, or just old film that you might want to use that was NOT cold stored.....forget about processing it as reversal; it will just be muddy nothing or very very poor.

    AND.....when processing OLD films, the darn remjet backing is very stubborn and you really have to work at getting it all off; meaning a long soak in the Borax Bath [10 to 20 minutes average] to help loosen it, and usually giving the film two wiping passes to get it all off. And even then, you might still have some streaks of it here and there. In the K-12 and K-14 processing machines, they use not only solution but soft buffer rollers rotating at high speed to help clear all this off and then a spray rinse to remove residual traces as the film passes through that stage of processing (done prior to actual developing).

    Hope this helps.
    Best regards,
    Martin Baumgarten
    "Panic not my child, the Great Yellow Father has your hand"--Larry Dressler

Page 1 of 7 1234567 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin