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Thread: about C41B

  1. #1

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    about C41B

    I have got a bottle of C41B(by Kodak) developer from my friend. I have found some info about C41B on the web: http://www.pro-image.com.tn/chimie/C41B.pdf

    I am doing reel and tank. I have some question on the procedure. Can I use C41 bleach and C41 fix for it? Kodak recommend to use C41B without wash, can I wash between develop and bleach? Thanks!!

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    From the linked PDF, I don't see anything "special" about the C41B developer other than it being LORR (Low Replenishment Rate), the developing time is the same. This C41 developer is used in other variations of the C41 process, it is only the bleach and fix and "washless" stabilizer that seem to be different. You can use standard C41 bleach and C41 fix and Stabilizer with your developer, but you will have to adhere to standard C41 procedures and times, not the C41B shortened times. Normally in any C41, you do not wash between the developer and bleach. This is fairly universal. The first wash comes after the bleach, and before the fix.

    If your bottle of C41 developer is "Replenisher" when mixing up a working solution, you will have to add "developer starter" to make complete C41 developer, otherwise it won't work correctly.

    The common Kodak C41 step-by-step is: (as I remember it)

    Developer 3minutes 15 seconds
    Bleach 6 minutes
    Wash 3 minutes 30 seconds
    Fix 6 minutes
    Wash 6 minutes
    Stabilize approx 1 minute
    Dry

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    If you get only one bottle there are two bottles missing. All Kodak C-41 developers come in 3 bottles, part A, part B and part C. It is never just one bottle. It is never pre-mixed.

    C-41B developer is what I use on my Jobo processor. I am not aware that Kodak offers C-41B developer other than in replenisher packages. They should be developer replenisher LORR. After mixing part A, B and C you will get Developer Replenisher LORR. You will have to add small amount of Developer Starter LORR to make it a true C-41B developer. Before adding starter LORR the replenisher has twice the potency as a developer replenisher. It needs only half of the quantity that a standard replenisher takes to replenish same number of rolls of ilm processed.

    This makes me wonder if this means it also has twice the potency after adding starter to become developer. I have used it just as standard developer (I did add starter LORR). It produces absolutely excellent negatives. Does its capacity really doubles the standard developer? I don't know. Can any expert answer this question please?

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    Kodak has other processes with shorter bleach and fix times.

    I do believe that the LORR has double capacity. However, Kodak's capacities are ridiculously low, stating that one liter of unreplenished working regular developer can process 3 rolls of 36 exposure 35mm film. That is theoretically impossible because 250ml has to be able to process one roll of film, before one normally adds replenisher. There is no way to use more chemistry in standard tanks. I have in the past used one liter to process 12 rolls of film until I realized that I would never make it through my 20 liters of developer at that rate. Other kits say to re-use each unit of solution 3 times increasing time by 15" each round.

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    hi, all.After try the C41B chemical, I bought one set of C41B recently.
    The deloper replenish solution needs starter solution to make it as working solution. I am really confused with the replenish rate, therefore, I give up to replenish the developer solution and always use fresh developer working solution.

    I also bought Bleach III by Kodak. This also comes with starter. If I replace 10ml new Bleach working solution for every roll of 120/ 135 film, do you tihink it will work?

    I also confuse with the C41 procedure. I wonder whether I should add a wash step between developer and bleach or I should do bleach just after develop step?

    Please advice, thanks!!!
    PS: I'm using JOBO 1520 Tank by hand.
    Last edited by ahock; 04-14-2009 at 12:24 AM. Click to view previous post history.

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    FWIW, I process C-41 thus:

    1. Pre-wet at 100F (a short water bath to bring the film & tank up to temperature)\
    2. Home-made (C-27) developer for 3:15 at 100F.
    3. Kodak bleach III (or equivalent from Silver Pixel or Fuji) for 6:30 at 100F.
    4. 4:00 wash in ~100F tap water.
    5. Kodak Flexicolor Fixer for 6:30 at 100F.
    6. 5:00 wash in ~100F tap water.
    7. 1:30 in Kodak stabilizer at room temperature.


    My 100F temperatures actually drop 5-10 degrees F over the course of processing because I use a water bath that tends to drop a bit over the time all this takes. The temperature is stable enough during the first few minutes (in the developer), though. My wash temperatures are judged by hand, so they might be off by ~5F or so. My wash times are a bit longer than Kodak recommends (IIRC, they say 3:15 for both the washes), but I'm erring on the side of a too-long wash since I figure that's likely to be less dangerous than doing too little washing. Maybe I'm wrong about that, though. If so, I hope somebody corrects me. I don't use any other washes or stop baths, although I've heard of people using a stop bath between the developer and the bleach.

  7. #7
    mts
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    You should put a sulfite stop bath (acetic acid + sulfite) between your color developer and bleach, and it doesn't hurt to add a rinse after the stop. You do not want to contaminate the bleach with color developer and thereby produce staining.

    Color is not nearly as difficult to process as most would have you believe. The bleach and fix temperatures are not critical, but should be near to the 100F processing temperature. It's just not all that difficult if you follow good, consistent darkroom practice and are not sloppy about time and developer temperature.
    By denying the facts, any paradox can be sustained--Galileo

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    C-41B developer (LORR developer) must have something that makes it different from regular developer. By looking at Kodak literature it says LORR developer replenisher uses only half of the amount to replenish than using regular replenisher. This seems implying that it has twice the developer capacity to me. Does any one know if this is a correct guess?

    I shoot mostly 220 films. I need as much volume of developer to develop my 220 films. When I switched to use LORR developer replenisher + LORR Starter I have never had processing problems any more. I wonder if this is the result of using this C-41B developer, which I guess has twice the capacity of regular developer. For those who may be confused here, C-41B developer is actually C-41 Developer LORR. It is not the same as regular C-41 Developer. Noramlly you can buy C-41 Developer LORR Replenisher (that's what I have) then mix it with LORR Developer Starter. The result is C-41B Developer (C-41 Developer LORR). According to Kodak documents C-41 Developer LORR Replenisher uses only half of the amount than regular Developer Replenisher to replenish. This says it has twice the capacity as a replenisher. I am implying that after adding Starter it then becomes a Developer with twice the capacity too. Does this make any sense?

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by mts View Post
    You should put a sulfite stop bath (acetic acid + sulfite) between your color developer and bleach, and it doesn't hurt to add a rinse after the stop. You do not want to contaminate the bleach with color developer and thereby produce staining.
    FWIW, Kodak's official process specification does not include a stop bath, at least not in the documents I've got on hand. I've just double-checked, and my Kodak Color Darkroom Dataguide (1996 edition), p. 22, lists the process exactly as I did above, except they don't mention a water bath pre-heat and their wash times are 3:15 rather than the slightly longer times I use. A Kodak PDF (publication Z131-03) gives precisely the same sequence as the Dataguide book. Perhaps there are situations where a stop bath would be helpful, but I don't know what they are. Perhaps PE could chime in on this one....

  10. #10

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    Hi,
    In C-41 you have two washes:
    1 Between bleacher and fixer 3'15"
    2 Between fixer and stabilizer 3'15"

    C-41B It has shorter times and the washes are optional. This "version" was made for minilabs. If you do not use washes at all, the "official" name is C-41BNP



 

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