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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    Kodak Portra 160 NC (perhaps also another type of Portra, i don't know.)
    Luckily, the film i like best for exactly those things i like to use 220 film for.


    P.S.
    I had a look at what B & H is offering, and Portra 400 NC and 400 VC also still come in 220 size.
    So do Fuji's Pro160S and Pro800Z.
    Then there still are Fuji's Astia, Provia and Velvia. And Kodak's E100VS.
    No B&W film, i'm afraid...
    Thanks....I'm in the UK, so maybe it's that there is none imported here. At least I now know that it does exist, even if I have to buy from overseas.

  2. #42
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by railwayman3 View Post
    Thanks....I'm in the UK, so maybe it's that there is none imported here. At least I now know that it does exist, even if I have to buy from overseas.
    I seem to be linking to AG Photographic a lot recently :

    http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/por...pack-302-p.asp
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #43
    hrst's Avatar
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    As Kodak makes some 220 products currently, they have the machine and backing paper for the process. So none of the Ilford points apply to Kodak. As you can see from Ilford's post, there is no other technical manufacturing points than the rolling machine and paper. Rest is marketing as discussed above.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    ...the rolling machine and paper.
    I had one of those. I was no good at doing it by hand.
    That was a lo-o-o-o-ng time ago. I stopped doing that sort of thing in 1980.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  5. #45
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    I'm 100% sure that the actual problem lies in marketing strategies, like: how many rolls of 120 and 220 should be sold and where (it's difficult to foresee the exact sales number---leftovers are not wanted
    It's more likely that for every roll of 220 sold there would be a reduction in sales of two rolls of 120 and it would not be economic to run both lines.

    Ilford had a similar decision to make a few years ago when they were thinking about making a Delta 25 film. In the end they realised that Delta 25 sales would impact on Pan F sales and both lines could become un-economic.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  6. #46
    hrst's Avatar
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    You missed the point.

    You cannot compare 120 vs. 220 to two different emulsions. Manufacturing many emulsions is a problem because each of them should sell in quite high volumes because of the cost involved in emulsion making and coating for the whole master roll. Please read my previous posts again. There's a huge difference between these operations:

    Manufacturing different emulsions
    -> emulsion making, coating, slitting, (perfing), cutting, packaging, selling
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    Manufacturing different sizes with different film base (35 mm vs. medium format vs. sheet film)
    -> coating, slitting, (perfing), cutting, packaging, selling
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    Manufacturing different lengths with different packaging (120 vs. 220)
    -> cutting, packaging, selling

    It's almost the same matter as selling 4x5" but not selling 8x10".


    While it's completely true that selling 220 is directly off from selling the same product in 120, it's also an undoubtable fact that when you have 120 film in your camera with fewer exposures, you shoot fewer frames than when you have more exposures available. With 220, you also have to shoot more before you can change the film to your camera (if you don't have multiple backs). This makes you use more film. These are considered as disadvantages by some, and as advantages by some, but from sales point of view, people using 220 rolls use them more than a half of number of 120 rolls they would use instead. I've seen it myself. I can shoot in a different way, more like with 35mm, with 220 roll in Mamiya 7.
    Last edited by hrst; 08-18-2010 at 05:12 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #47
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    it's also an undoubtable fact that when you have 120 film in your camera with less exposures, you shoot less frames than when you have more exposures available. With 220, you also have to shoot more before you can change the film to your camera (if you don't have multiple backs). This makes you use more film.
    You may be correct but that is probably not enough to convince a manufacturer to produce a product in 220 as well as 120 (and it's fewer frames, not less frames!).


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  8. #48

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    I buy Fuji and Kodak slide films in 220. They are still selling it.

    It means I can carry twice as many exposures in the same space. Very important while traveling.

  9. #49
    6x9
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    I shoot 6x9 only in medium format. I vote for more 220! I rather carry my camera and 20 rolls of 220 then my camera and 40 120 rolls.
    I have changed my password and changed my email to a random email. This is forum seppuku. Good bye!

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    Sure they could do it if they wanted to. But Ilford's objective is to make a profit, not to make film. Making and selling film is the vehicle they use to make a profit.

    Why don't we petition the government to purchase them a confectioning machine to support our art use of film?
    I agree entirely Kodak exists to make a profit for their shareholders too, and they know their business or the company wouldn't have lasted so long, and they obviously don't think it's in their commercial interest to manufacture it.
    Ben

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