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  1. #11
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    What I have sent in as my first print was a photo of the John F. Kenndey Library shot on Ektachrome 100 Plus. From here on in, 90% of my Ilfochromes will be from Kodachrome (if I am happy with them). I did not request any sort of contrast masking. Here is the shot that I sent in http://www.flickr.com/photos/35mmslides/3488649696/
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  2. #12
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Ilfochrome (aka Cibachrome) has been around since 1963! I don't know why people are asking about its future. It still has a commanding take up amongst professionals exhibiting in galleries (myself among; I am not finished with the spot lights in my own gallery). Treat pritns-to-Ilfochrome as part of an holistic approach to beautiful photography: shoot, develop, print, frame, exhibit, sell and don't just print any photo you have to Ilfo' — print only the best.

    Ian Grant: CIbas/Ilfochrome had the foundation objective of adding significant punch to reversal film (prints); that's why you expose the film in consideration of the end result (project or print); often slightly overexposed (typically, but not universally, +0.3, +0.5 or +0.6 for me). Ciba has long achieved this 'punch' with aplomb with contrasty, 'touchy' films such as Velvia, but such film must, must, must be exposed correctly (a more appropriate term might be sympathetically (i.e. in diffuse light and within the film's narrow dynamic range). Velvia (or any slide film) shot in bright sunlight looks just awful, and much worse if printed to Ciba where shadows will be huge slabs of black. Of the thousands of Cibas I have seen beautifully framed and spotlit in galleries, desert landscapes, sunrise, sunset and twilight, rainforests, open woodland, rivers and mountains have all been exploited very successfully by many photographers and immortalised on the Ilfochrome/Ciba media.

    I am intrigued by comments about "Magentas and especially purples are often garish on Ciba/Ilfochrome, often freakishly so from Velvia 50 originals." Really? How is this attributed to Ciba? Pronounced reciprocity failure on Velvia 50 (whether intended or not, but more often enthusiastically exploited) will cast to magenta; so too, will Velvia 100F given this film's flashy, avant-garde palette; if there is a cast, don't print to Ciba, as that process will by default add "oomph" to it.
    “The photographer must determine how he wants the finished print to look before he exposes the negative.
    Before releasing the shutter, he must seek 'the flame of recognition,' a sense that the picture would reveal
    the greater mystery of things...more clearly than the eyes see."
    ~Edward Weston, 1922.

  3. #13
    kraker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    Ilfochrome (aka Cibachrome) has been around since 1963! I don't know why people are asking about its future.
    '63! That's longer than I thought. Other than that, I was just about to suggest whether we could come up with a better title for this thread. Every time I see it, it scares the **** out of me. The fate of? Can('t) we be a bit more positive?

    (Having said that, I haven't yet used it... So who am I to chime in? Well, if I ever make the move from B&W to colour printing, I'm really going for Ilfo/Cibachrome, that's for sure. Yeah, RA-4 is cheaper, alright, but... as Homer would say: "Mmmm, Ilfochrome". Actually, this might be a good time to order some chemicals and paper; soon my darkroom will be too hot for B&W, so it might just be ideal for Ilfochrome processed at 24°C. )

    shuttr.net
    -- A sinister little midget with a bucket and a mop / Where the blood goes down the drain --

  4. #14
    Iwagoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    Of the thousands of Cibas I have seen beautifully framed and spotlit in galleries, desert landscapes, sunrise, sunset and twilight, rainforests, open woodland, rivers and mountains have all been exploited very successfully by many photographers and immortalised on the Ilfochrome/Ciba media.

    So you have seen Christopher Burkett?

  5. #15
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwagoshi View Post
    So you have seen Christopher Burkett?
    WOW! What a printing operation!
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  6. #16

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    I was under the impression that Cibachrome became available in the 1970's, not 1963. Just curious.

  7. #17
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    The dye bleach process has been known since the '30s or earlier. Kodak and other companies were competing for this market with dye bleach materials in the 40s but the Kodak product was never released. A Cibachrome type product was available even then, but AFAIK, only in Europe.

    It is noted for high contrast, low speed, high color saturation and often for loss of detail. Most particularly a red rose will show nearly all loss of dark shadow detail. Camera speed films were worked on at Kodak in the 60s and we had some pretty good results, but the grain was far too high due to the technical details.

    Dye bleach will probably vanish due to the high cost of coating, the high cost of the dyes, and the extremely corrosive process chemistry, but OTOH, would be the easiest to recreate sometime in the future if anyone needed a color material and all others had vanished.

    PE

  8. #18
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poisson Du Jour View Post
    Ian Grant: CIbas/Ilfochrome had the foundation objective of adding significant punch to reversal film (prints); that's why you expose the film in consideration of the end result (project or print); often slightly overexposed (typically, but not universally, +0.3, +0.5 or +0.6 for me). Ciba has long achieved this 'punch' with aplomb with contrasty, 'touchy' films such as Velvia, but such film must, must, must be exposed correctly (a more appropriate term might be sympathetically (i.e. in diffuse light and within the film's narrow dynamic range). Velvia (or any slide film) shot in bright sunlight looks just awful, and much worse if printed to Ciba where shadows will be huge slabs of black. Of the thousands of Cibas I have seen beautifully framed and spotlit in galleries, desert landscapes, sunrise, sunset and twilight, rainforests, open woodland, rivers and mountains have all been exploited very successfully by many photographers and immortalised on the Ilfochrome/Ciba media.

    I am intrigued by comments about "Magentas and especially purples are often garish on Ciba/Ilfochrome, often freakishly so from Velvia 50 originals." Really? How is this attributed to Ciba? Pronounced reciprocity failure on Velvia 50 (whether intended or not, but more often enthusiastically exploited) will cast to magenta; so too, will Velvia 100F given this film's flashy, avant-garde palette; if there is a cast, don't print to Ciba, as that process will by default add "oomph" to it.
    Not quite sure why you're addressing that to me.

    As you know there were various work arounds to lower the contrast of Cibachromes, masking, alternative first developers etc but the high contrast was always acknowledged to be a problem.

    The "oomph" as you call it is also a matter for personal preference, I happened to prefer the Fuji Reversal paper which gave more subtle accurate colour and tonal rendition, but of course saw many superb Cibachromes over the years.

    Whether it was Ciba's intention for Cibachrome to be such a high contrast colour paper or not many commercial labs spent a lot of time and effort into significantly reducing the contrast to make the paper more usable with a wider range of transparencies, something that they shouldn't really have had to do if the paper had been better matched to reversal films.

    Ian

  9. #19
    Aurum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iwagoshi View Post
    So you have seen Christopher Burkett?
    Some of those pictures in his Gallery are just a little surreal to say the least.

    He is composing with the eye of someone shooting B&W, but taking colour instead.

    A refreshing, certainly different, approach
    "Flatter Me, and I May Not Believe You. Criticize Me, and I May Not like You. Ignore Me, and I May Not Forgive You. Encourage Me, and I Will Not Forget You."

  10. #20
    Iwagoshi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurum View Post
    Some of those pictures in his Gallery are just a little surreal to say the least.

    He is composing with the eye of someone shooting B&W, but taking colour instead.

    A refreshing, certainly different, approach
    Seeing Burkett's work under gallery lights is almost a religious experience. I regret not buying one of his prints when they were affordable (~$300 in 1995).
    Last edited by Iwagoshi; 05-15-2009 at 03:45 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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