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  1. #51
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    Do you make a reversal RA-4 through scanning and printing?
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  2. #52
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    An ilfochrome bleach is:

    50 g/l Sulfamic Acid
    0.5 g/l phenazine.

    I'll try to look up a better one later on, but this one works fairly well. The problem is that phenazine is hard to get and has been reported to be a carcinogen. Ilford (Swiss) uses a different catalyst as did Kodak and I have some better substitutes here somewhere.

    If iterested, let me know but this is a difficult task to balance the catalyst with the dyes at the right acid level. It is usually about pH 1.0

    PE

  3. #53
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    I'm afraid that Ilford is killing Ilfochrome with too high pricing . That's a shame because I like Ilfochrome printing and would like to do it more, but now it seems to be more expensive than ever before. Now I just project my slides and if I need a print I make Reversal RA-4 that's over ten times cheaper than Ilfochrome.

    It would help much if there was a working recipe for Ilfochrome bleach. The official chemistry is very expensive.

    The prices I am paying have not changed since 2005, while prices for those who order panoprints have skyrocketed. Keep things in perspective though: reserve printing to Ilfochrome for your very, very, very best photographs that you intend to frame and exhibit or even sell. RA-4 (scanned from tranny) is fine for stat prints or giving out samples, just that Ilfochromes of your very best work will have the "Wow" factor +10 when exhibited. Even in this uber-digital take-up age, many photographically disconnected members of the public viewing exhibited Ilfochromes will tell you they've never seen or known such prints.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  4. #54
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Sorry, but you can't scan an RA4 print from a transparency, you must start with a negative unless you cross process.

    Transparencies made from anything via digital means, if color, are quite low in quality. This is not the place to go into that, but technology in digital has certainly not caught up in this area in any way.

    PE

  5. #55
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Sorry, but you can't scan an RA4 print from a transparency, you must start with a negative unless you cross process.

    Transparencies made from anything via digital means, if color, are quite low in quality. This is not the place to go into that, but technology in digital has certainly not caught up in this area in any way.

    PE

    That's interesting, because at the time I my RA-4 prints were returned with scans on a floppy disk ("What's a floppy disk?" my young nephew asked...) even though I didn't ask for scans. As the RA-4 prints never met with my exhibition standard, Ilfochromes were then pursued with gusto. Nowadays it's quicker to get a drum scan scan from a tranny at the high street store and print ultra-cheaply to Fuji crystal archive paper and give out these rough stats to clients. RA-4 still takes 2-3 days turnaround, which is too long. And these labs tell me I should "catch up and go digital". Cute.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  6. #56
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Garyh;

    You do not understand the neg pos systems fully then. What were the originals? That would be my first question.

    In any event, you are talking about scans from (something) and scans can be very sub standard.

    PE

  7. #57
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Trannies were supplied to the Lab, RA-4 prints came back with scans on a floppy — a process that was common then, but not now, nor were the scans asked for.

    You're correct about scans: even drum scans leave me circumspect. I much prefer clients to view Ilfochromes and not scans or stat prints; not always possible, but it is strongly preferred.
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  8. #58
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ok, then in your process, there was an inversion step to make the slide into a negative. This produced the RA4 prints and also reduced quality. The scans were not good and did not take into account the negative gamma and the proper masking, I would guess.

    PE

  9. #59
    Poisson Du Jour's Avatar
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    Whatever. I have already stated my obvious dissatisfaction with RA-4s for anything other than sub-optimal representations of my work for briefing, and even now small Ilfochromes are much better at getting the message across, but where time is critical and the client has been informed of the differences, machine prints will be fine until I can get them over the lightbox to look at the trannies and then also the resulting Ilfos.

    I had no use at all for the scans provided to me with the prints; I remember though they were huge (Mb). Besides the point, RA-4 prints from 1997 are patently bloody awful beside Ilfochromes of the same images!
    .::Gary Rowan Higgins

    A comfort zone is a wonderful place. But nothing ever grows there.
    —Anon.






  10. #60
    hrst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ektagraphic View Post
    Do you make a reversal RA-4 through scanning and printing?
    No, I mean I just cross-process RA-4 paper with BW paper developer as a first developer, then wash and fog with light and do normal RA-4 dev & blix. Works better with Kodak paper. Fuji CA must be pre-rinsed before first dev and gives greenish blacks. The process is posted here many times. I wouldn't talk about anything non-analog in APUG, although I'm also doing some scanning .

    Of course the Reversal RA-4 quality is not even near to Ilfochrome (or scanning&printing) but still it works and gives usable images with high contrast and long shoulder and some color crossover. But over ten times cheaper price and room temp tray processing possibility inspires me to do it.

    Just as Poisson Du Jour said, Ilfochrome is just for the very best few shots.
    Unless you are rich. The problem is that the paper and especially chemicals have a limited shelf life. Even though we have a photography club, still we don't do enough Ilfochrome due to it's price. The club should have more members interested in Ilfochrome, then we could stock the material. Now we have about five persons who do color prints.

    I guess that if Ilfochrome was cheaper---even if it still was five times more expensive than RA-4, but not ten times like now---people would use it so much more that it still would be profitable to Ilford. It is just so discouraging to make test exposures and so on and lose all your money before even getting the decent print. You must have room to experiment.

    PE, thanks for the bleach formula! We are going to try it out (if I can source some phenazine) because we have some Ilfochrome paper but the chemicals are probably exhausted.



 

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