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  1. #21
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    Well there's that, but not only that, I've heard one member on here saying that he had some Foma RC paper (which is what I use right now) "silver out" in as little as a few years. I'm not sure what that looks like but it's pretty worrying.
    There is RC paper and then there is RC paper!

    Many improvements are tied up in patents by the major companies and the smaller companies don't want to pay the royalties.

    OTOH, read Ctein's article on bronzing or silvering out of prints on RC due to overwashing. You have to leave a small amount of hypo in the print for protection. It forms a Silver Sulfide shell on the silver image that protects it from the environment.

    PE

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    I know that FB is supposed to last longer but I don't work with it now because I really don't have the facilities. I don't have running water in my darkroom and nowhere to leave prints washing or drying. I guess I don't do anything very seriously now, but I wish RC wasn't a second-rate technology.
    *****
    Keep you negs safe.
    John, Mount Vernon, Virginia USA

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Actually, this is true. There are many harmful carcinogens generated by Charcoal, by the lighter fluid and by the burning or charring of the meat by the intense heat.

    These produce a number of carcinogens. I cannot locate any specific papers at this time, but there was considerable uproar about this 10 years ago or thereabouts.

    PE
    One of the nasty carcinogens in charred meat is dioxin. Probably not to worry too much for occasional consumption but if you imbibe a lot it's cause for concern.

    My oldest silver print is 1925 (done by my father) but I have a South African print and a print from Norway both done in a studio in 1901 and 1892 respectively. All look very good.

    Nate Potter, Austin TX.

  4. #24
    BetterSense's Avatar
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    OTOH, read Ctein's article on bronzing or silvering out of prints on RC due to overwashing.
    Do you know where I could find it? I tried APUG search.
    f/22 and be there.

  5. #25

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    Just for the record:

    alternative tri-color pigment processes, like gum, carbon, carbro, oil- or bromoil transfer, can all be made with very stable pigments which will not fade, not for a very long time.

    The most stable process of them all might well be the chrysotype which consists of collodial gold. This is, or so it is argued, be Mike Ware for instance, even more sabe than platinum because platinum may act as a catalyzer and induce pollutants in the atmosphere to react with the paper base and embrittle it.

    I thought I'd mention this because permanence means something to me as part of the artistic statement I try to make.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
    ... and a guy in Maryland who's name I can't remember right off who's actually doing testing correctly -- getting fade and delta-e both for all the inks and inks in combination, and older photographic print processes too like RA-4 (at least I seem to recall that he's going to be testing RA-4 and some other processes to get comparisons). A lot of people in the industry think he's got his act together. If I can find his URL I'll append it when I find it -- he's the most interesting of the lot IMHO.
    That name I couldn't remember last night is Aardenberg.
    Last edited by Bruce Watson; 05-30-2009 at 10:14 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Bruce Watson
    AchromaticArts.com

  7. #27
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    I will try to address several things in one post.

    1. The Ctein article was published and is not on APUG. Try either google or write to Ctein. I have mislaid my copy (sorry Ctein, but then I virtually memorized it. )

    2. Pigments have their problems too being often composed of heavy metals such as Lead, Cadmium and etc... So one must be careful. Pigments made from dyes are not classically pigments and will fade. They may also be toxic.

    3. That would be Henry Wilhelm of the Wilhelm Institute. I met Henry when he gave his first talk on this subject in the 80s in Washington. Offhand, I forget where he is located. There are still arguments about his methodology as he uses only high intensity (500 fc) fade rather than the low intensity fade (100 fc) preferred by some and therefore his tests vary from some done by others. There are ANSI standards and the RIT Image Stability lab in Rochester (or Image Permanance Lab - I forget the exact title of the lab) does a lot of image stability testing on quite a few types of products.

    PE

  8. #28
    ann
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    i have several color prints, which i printed myself from a negative in 1984. They have been sitting in a box (archival) since that time. Once in awhile i bring them out to show some students the difference between them and some color prints made on Cibachrome in 1983 (in the same box) The prints made from the negatives are fading , the cibachromes look basically the same.

    just my personal experience.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by ann View Post
    i have several color prints, which i printed myself from a negative in 1984. They have been sitting in a box (archival) since that time. Once in awhile i bring them out to show some students the difference between them and some color prints made on Cibachrome in 1983 (in the same box) The prints made from the negatives are fading , the cibachromes look basically the same.

    just my personal experience.

    That is basically my experience also. All of the C and R color prints that I made in the 1980s with Kodak papers have faded, even when stored in the dark. On display they all faded within a few years. Cibachrome prints that I made in the same period appear to be in very good shape. Tri-color carbon prints I made during this period are also in very good shape.

    The use of inkjet printers that use pigmented dye sets is very new, and the technique is evolving. Even so I feel very confident that color prints I made on my Epson 3800 will be much longer lived than the C and R prints I made back in the 80s.

    Sandy King

  10. #30
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    Here's an informative essay from Joseph Holmes' site I read recently:
    http://www.josephholmes.com/processes.html
    scroll down to permanence.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

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