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Fuji is in trouble as well. I spoke with many Fuji people in 2006 at the ICIS conference here in Rochester. They had a very minor presence in analog and a major presence in digital similar to the Kodak balance. Most analog people were either Chinese or Russian. Most of the Russian people were no-shows as is normal due to their funding situation.
In any event, no one is immune to the digital revolution and that is what has taken the world and the photo industry by storm. Rapidly dropping prices of digital are the major factor, but now the economy is affecting everything.
PE
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 Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard  You people need to realize that FILM IS DEAD...
We are LUCKY to have what we have...
No stop bitching about it and go BUY some film and SHOOT it... Before they stop making it all together !! FILM IS NOT DEAD, it's had trouble the last few years, but I think the current spate of tiny market films disappearing is the beginning of the recovery process.
Slides in general are becoming a tiny market product, they may disappear all together, most slides were done for magazines and for that market, everything is processed digitally now, no matter the source, so an analog photographer can just as easily scan negatives as slides.
The home market for slides was waining long before digital came along. I still think that a process for printing slides optically, from colour negatives could be workable, would only need one emulsion, and could cover the small market for folks who still want slides.
I don't think that the trimming of products is anywhere near complete, I expect Kodak will end up, with 3 colour negative emulsions, 100, 400, 1600 ISO, and 5 B&W emulsions, probably the TMax stuff and Plus-X and Tri-X (although likely only one Tri-X). This would cover the remaining market nicely and the company would likely remain very profitable for a long time. Will everyone be happy, well not entirely
Paul Schmidt
See my Blog at http://clickandspin.blogspot.com
The greatest advance in photography in the last 100 years is not digital, it's odourless stop bath....
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So, from what I am reading, one of the problems with low-volume products at Kodak is that the manufacturing lines are not set up for low-volume manufacturing.
Is this a fundamental problem, or is it just the way Kodak decided to set up their manufacturing? What I mean is this. Is it possible to set up a manufacturing line that does small runs, or is there something fundamental to the nature of manufacturing slide film that requires mile-long coating factories?
I don't know the answer. However, my guess is that the manufacturing lines were built back when film was a high-volume commodity, and that high-volume lines were more cost effective under those conditions than low-volume lines. Now that times have changed Kodak is stuck with a manufacturing system that is not well-adapted to low-volume manufacturing, and retooling for low-volume manufacturing would not be cost effective for Kodak. (However, one must wonder whether it would be more cost effective to retool than to possibly be eventually forced to leave the business because the manufacturing lines are not adapted to current reality.)
Like I say, I don't know the answer. I am just speculating. PE probably knows something about it, especially whether smaller manufacturing facilities are possible for these types of products. Maybe he can tell us more.
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Alan;
In the 80s and 90s, demand for film grew nearly exponentially and digital was not a contender for the field due to high equipment costs. So, all companies as they were able and based on demands for their products scaled production upwads. With photo products, you can do that without building a new factory, just a new machine, B-38, but the older machines get used less and less due to increasing costs, obsolecence and equipment failure - parts availability. Soon you have to decide how to move ahead. In the end, all companies shut down the old equipment. (that is - all - as I understand it) in order to remain competitive.
So, the high end equipment remains, but much of the low end is gone. And, due to loss of sales and current market, there is no capital to backtrack.
The mile-long facility is in terms of sinusoidal loops of film on rollers that stretch about 1 mile and are needed to dry and temper the film. All films go through the same machine and are therefore designed to use the same loops and dryers. Thats about it. And, the hoppers are phenomenally expensive due to the accuracy needed in manufacture, so they use the same hopper(s) with slides added or removed as needed for the product.
So, the same machine can coat from 1 layer up to 14 layers (I've done 1 - 12) in the same dryers and through the same path. Making it cost effective has been a major task for several years, but now they are down to the last squeeze of blood from that turnip (or beet?).
When they reach that point, the ROI is zero and profit vanishes. When it goes into negative numbers, the product vanishes. Sorry.
PE
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Originally Posted by Photo Engineer When they reach the point that the ROI is zero and profit vanishes.... When it goes into negative numbers, the product vanishes. Sorry.
PE PE has got it 110%
Let us remember here, Kodak is a public owned corporation, same as Fujifilm and Ilford. If the analog products loose money for more than two quarters... BAM they will get a bullet to the HEAD - DONE.
The board of directors of these corporations do NOT care about Kodachrome, HIE, Velvia or any other film we love, They LOVE their paychecks and if they do not make $$... Guess what the share holders do to THEM... BAM they get a bullet to the head.
So unless there is a SOLAR storm and it kills ALL DIGITAL on the earth, GUESS WHAT ??? - FILM IS DEAD (not 110% yet but its got cancer and we are all out of chemo sauce and radiation :-()
What do you think KODAK will do is all the movie theaters go DIGITAL....
THEY WILL FINISH OFF ALL FILM !!
No movie film = NO FILM AT ALL !!
They would rather you watch the PGA Tour and get a KODAK moment, buy a DIGITAL photo frame and show off DIGITAL photos of little Jane and Johnny you captured with that nice little Kodak Easyshare camera.
So we can stick our heads in the bloody sand and BITCH why they took our film a way.
Do you want to keep your film ?? What do you do ???
Go BUY a lot of film, go SHOOT a lot of film and have a PRO LAB develop it and guess what MITE happen ??? The share holders, the board members and the BEAN counters mite give a sh*t and let you live another day !! That is the BEST you can hope for.
We shall go on to the end...
We shall fight in Rochester...
We shall fight on the seas and oceans...
We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the labs, we shall defend our FILM, whatever the cost may be...
We shall fight in Tokyo...
We shall fight in Cheshire...
We shall fight in the fields and in the streets...
We shall fight in the hills...
We shall never surrender !!
OK... NOW !!!
GO shoot some film and have some FUN and make some ART !!
Enjoy what we have for now and GET OFF THIS BLOODY DIGITAL COMPUTER !!
!! GO ANALOG ~ Ride or Die !!
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Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard We shall go on to the end...
We shall fight in Rochester...
We shall fight on the seas and oceans...
We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the labs, we shall defend our FILM, whatever the cost may be...
We shall fight in Tokyo...
We shall fight in Cheshire...
We shall fight in the fields and in the streets...
We shall fight in the hills...
We shall never surrender !!
I sorta half-expected this pep talk to conclude with "YEEEEEARRRGHHHHH!!!"
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Film is not dead, relax for christ's sake. Yes, the market has diminished. But by no means are people burning film in the streets.
Stop worrying about grain, resolution, sharpness, and everything else that doesn't have a damn thing to do with substance. http://www.flickr.com/kediwah
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Originally Posted by accozzaglia HAHAHAHAHA. Ol' Wierd Howard.
Actually it's Churchill. Sort of.
Can't imagine Churchill emitting that sound unless maybe he stuck his cigar in his mouth backwards.
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I thought it was "YEEEEHAAAWWWW".
PE
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Originally Posted by Scott_Sheppard We shall go on to the end...
We shall fight in Rochester...
We shall fight on the seas and oceans...
We shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the labs, we shall defend our FILM, whatever the cost may be...
We shall fight in Tokyo...
We shall fight in Cheshire...
We shall fight in the fields and in the streets...
We shall fight in the hills...
We shall never surrender !!
!! GO ANALOG ~ Ride or Die !! So much better than "They took my Kodachrome away!"
Steve
Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being! Nothing beats a great piece of glass! I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.
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