Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,924   Posts: 1,522,105   Online: 788
      
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20
  1. #11
    EASmithV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,873
    Blog Entries
    4
    Images
    121
    I'm not familiar with the processing workflow at Dwaynes, but if in fact the film manages to make it past the safeguards and screw up the machine, is there any possibility that it might destroy someone else's film? I would be willing to give it a try, but I refuse to risk someone else's films.
    www.EASmithV.com

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera."— Dorothea Lange
    http://www.flickr.com/easmithv/
    RIP Kodachrome

  2. #12
    fotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SE WI- USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,062
    Quote Originally Posted by EASmithV View Post
    .....but I refuse to risk someone else's films.
    Then throw it away. Forget using it.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  3. #13
    Ian Grant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    West Midlands, UK, and Turkey
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    16,195
    Images
    148
    If it had been possible to put KII through the current K-14 process then it would have already been done as there was a lot of unprocessed film around even after the switch & the final final shut down of all K-12 processing which was quite sometime later.

    Ron, (PE) would probably know but I suspect that K-12 was a lower temperature process, as were all early colour processes until C41 & E6 in the 70's, K25/K64 and the K-14 process were part of the new breed of colour films and although entirely different in approach almost certainly benefited from the same research that lead to overall improvements in hardening emulsions, and in emulsion technology.

    Just like you can use much lower temperatures to process a C-22 film through C41 shemistry, or E3/4 film through E6 it's vaguely possible that a KII film could go through K-14 processing, but only by altering the process temperature & time & no-ones going to risk it. Colour was poor when processing older films in C41/E6 as the dyes aren't formed properly.

    Processing early non E6/C41 films will ruin other subsequent film if put through a commercial lab neg processing machine, which may then require a major strip down & clean. It's quite likely that KII would do the same to Dwaynes K-14 line.

    Ian

  4. #14
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,926
    Images
    65
    K-12 film was hardened with Formaldehyde and Mucochloric acid AFAIK and was a 75 degree process. The original K-14 process was 85 degrees with the same hardener + a prehardener as used in E-4. I believe this was changed to use the new hardener. IDK the process temperature of the final K-14 as I was well out of the loop by then.

    All I know is that a K-12 film in a K-14 process creates a mess of emulsion coming off the support in the rem-jet removal step and subsequent steps until it is all removed leaving a clear support and pieces of emulsion floating in the tanks of solution.

    However, the K12 films can be processed in B&W solutions. They can also be processed to give reasonable B&W positives in a normal B&W process. Query DR5 for this. If the process is at 68 degrees, it should work.

    PE

  5. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,531
    Back in the mid-1980's, I was given a stack of exposed K-II films from the estate of a distant relative. I asked Kodak UK about processing, and they advised (even then, 20+ years ago) that there was no way of getting color images, K-12 having been discontinued some years before that.

    They gave me the address of an independent lab who could process as a B&W negative, but, when I enquired, the cost was prohibitive (IIRC it was a pro movie lab). We knew the films were only holiday-type movies, nothing of great interest or historical value, and I think in the end we dumped the films.

    Personally, I wouldn't waste effort and processing costs trying to shoot Kodachrome II at the stage.

  6. #16
    Marco Gilardetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Torino, Italy
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    However, the K12 films can be processed in B&W solutions. They can also be processed to give reasonable B&W positives in a normal B&W process. Query DR5 for this. If the process is at 68 degrees, it should work.
    Dear Photo Engineer, please let me thank you first for all the extremely informative posts I've read from you in the last years.

    As I have a very old KII double-8mm cine film that I couldn't have had developed by Kodak back in the eighties, I am very interested in this sentence of yours. Could you please expand? Is there anyone offering a b&w reversal developing service (by mail) suitable for KII double 8mm film? If anyone already did it, I'd prefer to pay him rather than try the process for the first time by myself with this precious film I've kept for all these years.

    Thank you.
    I know a chap who does excellent portraits. The chap is a camera.
    (Tristan Tzara, 1922)

  7. #17

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Van Buren, Arkansas
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    2,412
    Images
    101
    To understand "why" one has to understand basic differences between b/w films and color films. B/W films have always been designed to "work" with conventional b/w chemicals. These basic developing and fixing agents were standardized a century ago, and even though there are infinite variations they still work in basically the same way. The developer converts the exposed silver haliade to metallic silver in proportion to the films exposure to light, and the fix removes all the undeveloped silver. This concept has never changed.

    Color films, on the other hand have been re-engineered from scratch many times. New dyes were developed over time, new color couplers, etc. It has not been possible to make newer, better, improved color films with better dye stability compatible with older processes. It has also not been possible to make older color films compatible with current processes. Until the introduction of Kodaks C-41 negative process and E-6 color slide process, all manufacturers had their own unique color film processes. It is not just Old Kodachrome that cannot be processed in current Kodachrome chemistry, but in essence ALL color films prior to the current color film processes cannot be processed for optimum results, or in most cases any results. Since color negative and Ektachrome (type) processes are vastly more simple in processing than Kodachrome, some custom labs are willing (for a price) to custom mix and keep chemistry to process the older consumer films made prior to C-41 and E-6. Kodachrome is a different beast. It is probably the most complex color film process ever engineered. Doing small quantity processing, ever so often, of obsolete Kodachrome has never been economically feasable. Also, the older color negative and color slide processes (other than Kodachrome) can be done in simple tanks with inversion agitation, and no big investment in specialized equipment. Kodachrome, on the other hand has always required very specialized automated processing equipment to process, and these machines are all dismanteled and mostly scrapped.

  8. #18
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,926
    Images
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by Marco Gilardetti View Post
    Dear Photo Engineer, please let me thank you first for all the extremely informative posts I've read from you in the last years.

    As I have a very old KII double-8mm cine film that I couldn't have had developed by Kodak back in the eighties, I am very interested in this sentence of yours. Could you please expand? Is there anyone offering a b&w reversal developing service (by mail) suitable for KII double 8mm film? If anyone already did it, I'd prefer to pay him rather than try the process for the first time by myself with this precious film I've kept for all these years.

    Thank you.
    Thank you as well. I try.

    In this case however, although I know it can be done, IDK how well it can be done and who will do it on any reasonable basis. I suggested DR5 as one possible lab that might, but any Cine lab might do it as well, as long as the process is at 68F and they have a means to remove the rem-jet.

    In any event, they may have to play with the process to get the best results unless they have done it before and have a table worked out for the various color films that they might get.

    PE

  9. #19
    EASmithV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maryland
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,873
    Blog Entries
    4
    Images
    121
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Thank you as well. I try.

    In this case however, although I know it can be done, IDK how well it can be done and who will do it on any reasonable basis. I suggested DR5 as one possible lab that might, but any Cine lab might do it as well, as long as the process is at 68F and they have a means to remove the rem-jet.

    In any event, they may have to play with the process to get the best results unless they have done it before and have a table worked out for the various color films that they might get.

    PE
    I contacted DR5, and he told me "for Kodachrome contact Dwaynes"... :rolleyes:

    Anyway, he did tell me that DR5 wont do rolls over 30 feet long as they are not a true cine lab.
    Last edited by EASmithV; 07-08-2009 at 10:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    www.EASmithV.com

    "The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera."— Dorothea Lange
    http://www.flickr.com/easmithv/
    RIP Kodachrome

  10. #20
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,926
    Images
    65
    If DR5 can process B&W cine film to produce positive images, and if he can handle rem-jet, he should be able to handle Kodachrome. Maybe he thought you meant as a color product????

    PE

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin