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  1. #21
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Oh... I am a conductor as well, which I don't make any actual music at all. (well, I'm not supposed to... sometimes I hum along.) What kind of artist do you suppose that would make me? I've got an eight-hour rehearsal for a production of Evita this afternoon. Why don't you chum along and you can tell me who the artists are in the room. Andrew Lloyd Webber won't be there. (oh, that's right... he's only a composer.) All I'll be doing is waving my arms. Nothing of any artistic value in that. Someone else in the room will be making the music. They must be the artists.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  2. #22
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    No tears on my part for demise of the minilab. I hope it will promote custom labs like this: http://labwork-bw.com/main.htm
    Yes, you will pay more, but you won't get crap prints either.

  3. #23
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    I wish optical minilabs were still popular. I know that RA-4 minilabs are still optical in a sense because they scan and print optically but I like the totally traditional ways.
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  4. #24
    jnanian's Avatar
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    if your (mini) lab gives you bad prints, change labs!

    personally, i don't think really matters who processes or prints the film ...
    more often than not pushing the button is harder than anything else further down the line ...
    Last edited by jnanian; 09-20-2009 at 11:44 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: ( )

  5. #25
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    Now, I have to say that the local Wal-Mart does an excellent job. They are knowledgeable about they're machines, and since I have been getting my C-41 done there for years. They recently switched over to a "dry lab" meaning they print CMKY dye-sub on fuji inkjet paper. I don't do any of that, because I don't like the way the prints act. They scan the negs for me, CD Only, and will do just about anything I ask. I tell them not to color correct anything, turn off all the automatic deals, and they have no problems doing anything like that.

    I think I am going to start using Richards Photo lab for my color stuff as well tho, because I have no say in what the Corporate monsters do.
    - J. Richard
    4x5 Speed Graphic, Looking for another 8x10.

  6. #26

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    Dear Steve and Tom;
    First I will reply to Steve. Steve, if composition, cropping and proper exposure is all you aim for in your expression then what you have described is not akin to art but more akin to framing and technique. If what you later describe in darkroom craft, dodging, burning and image manipulation to achieve your vision, then what you have described is the compilation leading to artistic expression. It is the road every photographic artist has taken to earn the right to call themselves artists. The word artist has oftentimes become used to mean something above, elite, better than not but that is only in the opinion of others. I use the term to describe the "compleat" not complete, photographer.
    That is, vision, under total control of craft, to realize that vision and that original vision thus realized,(composed), is the Art.
    Tom, I am very sorry if you thought my use of the word composer implied musical composition...Never. I know of no composer who was not only versed in their craft but very often brilliant performing artists as well... Rachmaninoff, Liszt, Chopin, Gershwin and others too numerous to mention. Tom, have you ever known a composer that could not sight read or at the least have some knowledge of orchestration or play an instrument? I have not met one and I was, in my early life before becoming a professional athlete, a musician. In the mid 1950's while I was studying toward a career as a concert pianist, I met Ansel Adams while he was photographing on our Sierra property. While he was photographing a huge burnt out cedar stump, I asked why he didn't prefer to photograph the six beautiful waterfalls and cascades on our property and he explained his vision to me and analogized music and photography. That moment struck me like a thunderbolt and for the rest of the morning and late into the afternoon we discussed music and photography. Ansel started me on this wondrous journey and I am forever grateful for that gift. Tom, I will tell you that of all the art forms, musical composition and literature are at the summit of art in my opinion and will outlast every other art form. I am sorry that I do not posses the talent for either. I am equally sorry that what I wrote offended you so much, as after reading your response, it is clear that we are in complete agreement on what constitutes the necessary components of art.
    Denise Libby

  7. #27

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    Denise - yours is an interesting argument. May I ask if you have considered photographers who use slide film and project the results. Can they be artists?

    Steve.

  8. #28

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    Dear Steve;
    In a word yes. Perhaps Alfred Stieglitz said it best, "art is only work until some rich guy buys it". A little cynical and in many cases much too true. I believe that art, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps a more universal definition should include that art is a want not a need.
    Denise Libby

  9. #29
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Denise,
    Thank you for your reply. I see that I mistook your words. I will excuse my harsh reply by saying that it was probably in part due to the physical, mental, and emotional exhaustion that often dogs me during the final stages of a months-long theatre project. I saw your words and had a little defensive hissy fit. I offer my sincerest apologies.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  10. #30
    jnanian's Avatar
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    i have never heard that people who take their film to a lab aren't "real artists",
    or if someone shoots chromes they are less of a photographer
    than someone who shoots black and white ...
    i don't share that point of view at all and i think it is kind of comical that that this was even suggested...
    seeing so many photographers, who have "made it" worked hand in hand with a lab,

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