Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,300   Posts: 1,535,814   Online: 741
      
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    373

    Thinking of getting into C-41 developing

    I currently develop b&w, and am thinking of starting to develop C-41. I'd want to use the Kodak chemistry with stabilizer rather than the 3-step kits that use BLIX.

    How hard is it compared to B&W to get quality and consistency?
    How toxic are the chemicals?
    Can you use the same tanks and reels you use for b&w?
    How cost effective is it?
    How long is Kodak likely to make the chemicals?

    Please share your experiences.

    Thanks.

  2. #2
    mts
    mts is offline
    mts's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Los Alamos, NM
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    335
    Images
    119
    How hard is it compared to B&W to get quality and consistency?
    C41 is not much more complicated than B&W. No special equipment is needed. I use water bath tempering for the chemistry (bottles in a dishpan of hot water ~140F, and start processing when temperature stabilizes at about 101F). Only the developer (first solution) is particularly temperature sensitive. Thus you only need to be between 99-101F for about 3 1/2 minutes. I hold the small tank (Nikkor two-reel tank) in the tempering bath in between inversions for agitation.

    How toxic are the chemicals?
    Not very unless you are sensitized to developing agents. You should have little or no more chemical exposure than for processing B&W in small tanks. Stop bath is acetic acid/sodium bisulfite and fixer is quite similar to what you are using now. Bleach is primarily Ferric-EDTA and while it can be corrosive to stainless steel, the short exposure of processing isn't a problem. It does not appear to present any dermatitis problem, although there are alternative bleach formulae that are not so benign. CD3 and CD4 developing agents are more complicated, but toxicity is somewhat comparable to phenidone that is used in many B&W developers. I will defer to experts on this, but have not had any problems when following good lab procedure and the normal practice for small tank processing. Stabilizer contains formaldehyde, but it is my understanding that stabilizer is not needed for the current generation of C41 and RA4. I continue to use the formaldehyde-based stabilizer perhaps more out of habit than for any other reason. I do use photo sponges to wipe film after a couple of minutes in the stabilizer before it is left to air-dry.

    Can you use the same tanks and reels you use for b&w?
    Yes, but water bath tempering is facilitated by using SS tanks and reels owing to their improved thermal conductivity. Otherwise it's exactly the same as for B&W processing with a bleach step added before the fixer.

    How cost effective is it?
    Probably not as cheap as WallyMart processing, but a lot better for quality and consistency and certainly for convenience. I use scratch-mix chemistry exclusively. See the Alternative C41 thread for discussions of this approach. There are also threads with lots of information on dividing Kodak and other chemistry into more convenient sizes. I mix and use 1-liter size and process for a few weeks before renewing the developer. I use stop, bleach, and fix to exhaustion as determined by observable activity taking half the processing time. Usually these solutions last a lot longer and can be used for quite a few rolls before being replaced.

    How long is Kodak likely to make the chemicals?
    I defer to PE for comment on this, but likely as long as they are in the film business. Kodak supplies a lot of small independent processors and obviously they are going to support their films for as long as possible. Read that statement to mean until some corporate raider decides the company assets are worth more than the stock and buys Kodak for liquidation. Kodak has gone into the digital market very heavily in an attempt to stay afloat. I expect they are going to be in the chemistry business longer than a few other big outfits we can name like Braniff, Ozark, Eastern, Western, TWA, etc.
    By denying the facts, any paradox can be sustained--Galileo

  3. #3
    Athiril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,499
    Images
    28
    It's extremely cheap depending on the kit you get.

    A pre-made kit in 5 litres+ is economic.

    But a kit that you source from starter and replenishers on individual parts/bathes is extremely cheap for the amount of chemical you get.

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    It's extremely cheap depending on the kit you get.

    A pre-made kit in 5 litres+ is economic.

    But a kit that you source from starter and replenishers on individual parts/bathes is extremely cheap for the amount of chemical you get.
    Out of the following chems, which ones am I likely to need?

    http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/de...-41 flexicolor

  5. #5
    Athiril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Melbourne, Vic, Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,499
    Images
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by B&Wpositive View Post
    Out of the following chems, which ones am I likely to need?

    http://www.adorama.com/searchsite/de...-41 flexicolor
    Well you need colour developer, bleach and fix is the minimum, you may want stabiliser too (but thats real cheap anyway).

    You need Developer Starter + Replenisher for a working developer, same with everything else, starter + replenisher.

    Adorama do not appear to have everything you need in a starter/replenisher kit.

    If you want a simple to use kit that gives great results - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...for_Color.html

    I had the same thing but in a 5 litre kit for twice the cost here in Australia and its still more economical than getting film processed by a minilab here.

    The 5 and 15 litre is only $20 difference from B&H, I've already finished my 5 litres.

    Tetenal reckons it processes 60 to 80 films, so I'm assuming the 15L kit does 3x as much

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    373
    That kit uses blix. Yuck.

    Is Kodak the only company that produces chemistry with separate bleach and fix solutions*? I don't want to compromise by using a blix solution. I also want to avoid stabilizers that contain formaldehyde.

    Can one mix and match chemistry from different brands to get teh best of both worlds--eg:

    Tetenal developer (or Kodak)
    *Kodak bleach
    *Kodak fix
    Tetenal formaldehyde-free Stabilizer

    Is this ok chemistry-wise??????????????????
    Are the above even available separately?
    Would this be the right stabilizer? http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...lizer_for.html
    It says it's for Jobo machines!? It supposedly has low formaldehyde content.

    What about "final rinse"?
    http://www.adorama.com/KKFCSR10L.html

    And the bleach: What's with this gigantic quantity of 12.5 gallons?!
    http://www.adorama.com/KKFCBRA125G.h...-41+flexicolor
    They don't sell smaller quantities?! That is waaaay too much. It's bigger than the fish tank I used to have!! And over twice the size of the 5-gallon pails that driveway sealer comes in! I'm not running a minilab here! It must weigh 100 lbs.
    Last edited by B&Wpositive; 08-23-2009 at 10:10 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #7
    fotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SE WI- USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,095
    As far as I know, B&H won't ship chemicals, you have to pick up. Fuji and Trebla make the same stuff. Don't know if you can mix and match.

    Still trying to source out stuff myself in reasonable sizes and moderate shipping cost.
    Items for sale or trade at www.Camera35.com

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    373
    Quote Originally Posted by fotch View Post
    Still trying to source out stuff myself in reasonable sizes and moderate shipping cost.
    Where have you been looking?

    Looks like Calumet has some of the stuff in smaller amounts, maybe all of them:
    http://www.calumetphoto.com/Film:+Ca...ual+Chemicals/
    Last edited by B&Wpositive; 08-23-2009 at 10:59 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    309
    If you are in the West Coast, such as California as I am, you can check out this Kodak distributor in Los Angeles and Haywayd (Bay Area) in California. It is for larger chemical packs (at much lower costs) though. It is a mini-lab supplier. You will need to call them to find prices. They are real wholesale prices. If you are close to their warehouses you can go to pick up your order. If you are not too close to them I think they will ship. But I am not sure it will be cost effective to ship small orders. You will have to call to find out. Here is the site:

    http://www.changsphoto.com/inventory...l/chemical.php
    Last edited by mtjade2007; 08-24-2009 at 01:26 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    747
    Why the bias against blix ?

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin