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  1. #1

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    provia 100f with tetenal e6 3 bath questions

    hello friend i d like to process in the same bath (for a work) kodak 100 vs and fuji provia 100f do you know if the provia 100 have different first developer time?

    thanks

  2. #2
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    No, it's the same for both films. That's the beauty of C41/E6, that the development process is standardized. Should you be unhappy with the color results, the Tetenal instructions tell you what to do to correct color casts or exposure deviations.

  3. #3
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Actually, the recommended times for Fuji in Tetenal 3-bath are slightly longer than for Kodak films. Check the Tetenal instructions. My first developer times for Provia 100F with Tetenal 3-bath E-6 are--

    First batch:

    -1--5:15
    N--7:30
    +1--10:00
    +2--13:30

    Second batch:

    -1--5:30
    N--7:45
    +1--10:15
    +2--second batch not recommended

    Tetenal gives times for three batches through the first developer. I don't recommend that for Fuji films, but I've done that with Ektachrome, and it's been okay.

    Tetenal also gives times for push processing up to four stops, but I don't recommend pushing more than two stops in the three-bath kit.
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  4. #4
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Tetenal E6

    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Actually, the recommended times for Fuji in Tetenal 3-bath are slightly longer than for Kodak films. Check the Tetenal instructions.

    Tetenal gives times for three batches through the first developer. I don't recommend that for Fuji films, but I've done that with Ektachrome, and it's been okay.

    Tetenal also gives times for push processing up to four stops, but I don't recommend pushing more than two stops in the three-bath kit.
    I hold the instructions for the Tetenal E6 1 liter 3 bath kit in my hands as I write this. These instructions came with translations in many languages including English, so I'd be surprized to hear that (lawyer jokes aside) different instruction manuals would be printed for the US market.

    The only mentioning of differences between film brands is when adjusting for color casts and the generic "First developer times must be adapted individually to suit the combination of developer machine, film make, ..." phrase. Pushing and pulling is described from -3 to +2 stops.

    Are there possibly different instructions for the 5l kit?

  5. #5
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Interesting. Maybe they've changed the formulation or the instructions or the formulation since I last looked at them. I usually go by the times in my own notes. I looked to see if it was still possible to download a PDF of the instructions from the Tetenal website and couldn't find it, but these instructions look like what I can recall--

    http://www.davidrichert.com/3_step_e-6.htm
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  6. #6
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Interesting. Maybe they've changed the formulation or the instructions or the formulation since I last looked at them. I usually go by the times in my own notes. I looked to see if it was still possible to download a PDF of the instructions from the Tetenal website and couldn't find it, but these instructions look like what I can recall--

    http://www.davidrichert.com/3_step_e-6.htm
    Interesting link, but it strongly deviates from what's written in my instruction booklet in many aspects:
    • The link recommends only three runs of film, my booklet lists processing times for up to four runs (I did five spread over a week and got decent results)
    • The link recommends 4 minutes of color developer time, which is way shorter than what my booklet recommends
    • The link's mixing instructions always mention Part1&2, a current Tetenal E6 kit uses different quantities of Part 1 and 2 for some bathes.
    • The link recommends only half a minute of stabilizer bath, my booklet states 1 whole minute.
    • The link recommends much shorter wash times
    • The link talks about a 1/2 liter set, which to my best knowledge isn't sold any more
    • The link only lists push/pull between -1 to +2, my booklet lists procedures between -3 and +2 stops


    Altogether this smells like Tetenal has changed their formulation and Mr. Richert didn't update his web page to reflect this. The changes may not make a big difference, but the difference in CD time would worry me.

  7. #7
    Kevin Caulfield's Avatar
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    I also just checked my Tetenal E6 instructions, and as Rudeofus mentioned the only differences indicated between film brands are for correcting colour deviations.

  8. #8

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    Hi everyone,

    It'd very surprising to me, because, the one and only version of Tetenal E6 booklet I ever seen was the one translated in the link given by David. I use with very satisfiying result (to me), the following times for First Developer :
    - 7:30 for Fuji Film (*)
    - 6:30 for others brands (Kodak, Agfa)

    (*), I use this for the "Pro" range of inversible film (Provia, Velvia), and use the standard 6:30 time for Fuji Sensia film ! I already heard of this difference somewhere on the web, and wasn't believed it, until I "tested" it myself, the hard way. I got two roll of Sensia 200, processed in the FD for 7:30, with overblown highlights, and a ugly greenish cast. Not totally ruined, but ugly.
    I think Astia film should be processed with reduced FD time, too, I heard somewhere it's the same emulsion as Sensia.

    Is somebody here do the same statement ?

    @danzyc : In all case I prudently advise to NOT mix two different brands of film in the same processing batch. I can't recall where I read it, but in this case, I have not tried it myself

    Regards,

    Raphael

    P.S : I use a Jobo ATL-1 processor.

  9. #9
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    It'd very surprising to me, because, the one and only version of Tetenal E6 booklet I ever seen was the one translated in the link given by David. I use with very satisfiying result (to me), the following times for First Developer :
    - 7:30 for Fuji Film (*)
    - 6:30 for others brands (Kodak, Agfa)
    That's interesting, because the little booklet in many languages came with every pack of Tetenal E6 developer I bought ... Now that I looked at it: the package does look different in the USA than the EU version. Very confused now. The Mfr# are also somewhat different.

    Just curious: Do you get these little packs our do you buy the huge bottles where Tetenal may assume that you knew the process anyway?

    For anyone with more detailed questions I recommend contacting Tetenal directly. In my complete noob phase I contacted them and got very helpfull advice. They were quite happy to hear about someone entering this field.

    Either they provide you with current instructions or there will be a way to get a scanned copy into your hands

    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    (*), I use this for the "Pro" range of inversible film (Provia, Velvia), and use the standard 6:30 time for Fuji Sensia film ! I already heard of this difference somewhere on the web, and wasn't believed it, until I "tested" it myself, the hard way. I got two roll of Sensia 200, processed in the FD for 7:30, with overblown highlights, and a ugly greenish cast. Not totally ruined, but ugly.
    I think Astia film should be processed with reduced FD time, too, I heard somewhere it's the same emulsion as Sensia.

    Is somebody here do the same statement ?
    To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference in results between 6:30 and 7:30 of FD time reliably because the difference is 1/2 stop or less, which is below the accuracy of most of my light meterings. The difference, if it exists, may stem from inaccurate statements of film ISO number by the manufacturers rather than different chemical properties. People reportedly rate and shoot 400 ISO film at anything between 320 and 640 from what I read.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    @danzyc : In all case I prudently advise to NOT mix two different brands of film in the same processing batch. I can't recall where I read it, but in this case, I have not tried it myself
    I may not be the most experienced E6 user here, but I can confirm that I achieved acceptable results putting E100VS and Provia 400X into the same tank.

    So to all those who don't shoot 5 test rolls of refridgerated slide film from one batch lot to evaluate the exact color properties and ISO performance of that very lot: E6 is E6 is E6. That's the whole idea of E6 and I doubt that any pro lab bothers separating the different E6 film brands. Please don't make the E6 process sound like black magic that no mortal could ever figure out.

  10. #10
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raphael View Post
    I think Astia film should be processed with reduced FD time, too, I heard somewhere it's the same emulsion as Sensia.
    I don't know if they are the same emulsion, but my Astia first developer times are shorter than my Provia times and longer than my Kodak/Agfa times.
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