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  1. #11
    AgX
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    "Colour or not colour" in coloured (masking) couplers is dependant on an azo-group. Something not found on regular couplers nor on any dyes originating from couplers.

    If you can destroy just azo-groups, you can bleach the mask.


    PUG-couplers have that group too. The effect on them depends on what stage that bleaching is done.
    Last edited by AgX; 09-29-2009 at 07:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #12
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Yes I processed the same films in Rodinal, they have the full orange mask.


    No its not B&W Acid Bleach, its C41 blix, all the chems are from a C41 kit, apart from adding in first dev and light reversal.



    Rodinal 1+50, 40c, 2 hours, 1 inversion per 10 min RAW scan


    Colour "Corrected"


    I started procesing this way as I was down to the dregs of my C41 developer and using it as a 'process to completion' developer was more tempting, at the point I started trying rodinal with it, I had re-used the same solution about 10 or so times - as you can see in this picture the colour developer has had it.

    Im waiting on some colour developer starter + colour developer replenisher (40 litres - Kodak E6) for which I will try this with as well.



    And yes the times really do need to be that long, as shorter times come out with basically no image.
    Reala, 24c, Xtol 1+1, 7min (light falloff is natural there - macro-photographed it hand held, thats where the backlight fell off).



    Here is 40c, 40min 1+1 Xtol, Superia XTRA800, night time shots, daylight balance on the RAW photo (daylight bulb in the light box thing), this was my first "sucess" at a reasonable result/image from processing this way.




    edit: since Im out of any kind of colour developer for a while, I will try making b&w negs by way of 'bleach' bypass/fix only.

    Since I have a stack of 35mm C41 film I probably wont other use now, since I've moved onto 6x7 and 4x5"

    I will process one in Xtol, one on Rodinal and see what I get.


    edit2: Also
    Found one of the earlier samples I did, mid 30s celsius, was a bit under developed.


    Photo of the frame info:

    'dry scan' with luminance levels for correct exposure


    An attempt at a colour balance...



    The later samples.. showed better 'raw'/dry colour (I wonder if thats from the 40min/40c - less orange mask though there is very little in this one, or the fact the later samples were not reala), and I still think there is a little orange mask in that one, but as you can see its virtually not there.


    And I mentioned Astia earlier... Astia came out with great colour 'raw'/dry, I'd say near balanced even.

    Im looking forward to trying Xtol with Real E6 colour developer.
    Last edited by Athiril; 10-01-2009 at 06:44 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #13
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Well, I have no idea what is going on.

    PE

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Well, I have no idea what is going on.
    But it is kinda cool!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  5. #15
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    I have a process compatible with the E6. When I make the proces I had a number of difficulties in finding the composition and working parameters to b & w developer. More over, the film Velvia 50 go good and with Provia 400 I had problems with fog.
    I know the chances that a picture go good is to have white and black ok. The other colors go on the curve.
    Shooting a color scale with different exposure (normal ± 1 stop).
    Take 3 pieces of exposed film which is: (normal and ± 1 stop). Then developed into b&w developer with 3 times. + 15% of your time, normal and - 15% of your time. Introduction the tests exposed in the spiral successively. The above times indicated.
    I never processed color negative film in E6 process.
    In my opinion, should not we have a big fog (mask).
    The density of the fog in photo color negative films is small.
    The density of the fog color film negatives –cinematography are high, especially in yellow (~ 0.9).
    You must obtain a little fog and some reasonable maximum acceptable density.
    One can see that the more times in the first developer the maximum density will be lowered.
    If you can you can replace the color developer CD 3 with CD 2 is good.
    You have a better contrast and image balance.
    My suggestion is make a prebath with 20 g sodium carbonate (anhydrous) /1000 ml water. 3 minutes with 30 – 35 º C. Prebath before the b&w developer.
    You can see the color of the prebath go after treatement. Wash after prebath is good.
    George

  6. #16
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Use of CD2 or CD4 with E6 films will reduce image stability and cause color purity problems. E6 was designed for CD3.

    PE

  7. #17
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    Kodak specifies that can substitute CD 2 with CD 3 in ECN II process (Figure 8-6, page 12).
    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploa...h248_h2408.pdf
    I understand the tests is make with negativ color.
    George

  8. #18
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I don't think that there is a suggestion that you do that. I believe that one reference line is in error. CD2 used to be used with ECN, but they changed to CD3 for greater stability of the developer and dyes. CD2 was known also to cause a problem with dermatitis.

    PE

  9. #19
    hrst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georgegrosu View Post
    Kodak specifies that can substitute CD 2 with CD 3 in ECN II process (Figure 8-6, page 12).
    http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploa...h248_h2408.pdf
    I understand the tests is make with negativ color.
    George
    That figure shows what will happen if you contaminate your developer with the wrong CD. The whole paper is for showing what will be the effects of different kind of contaminations or processing faults. These are not suggestions...

    And, as you can see from the curves, the effects are quite large on color balance and speed.

  10. #20
    georgegrosu's Avatar
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    In “Effects of Mechanical & Chemical Variations in Process ECN-2” - Figure 8-6 Effects of CD-2 and Stop Bath Contamination—5217, 5242 Film in Process ECN-2 Developer- is passed to CD 2 - Substitute CD-2 for CD-3. For hrst.
    The notion of contamination, for me, refers to little concentration. Concentration of 0.5 - 1.5 g / l CD 2 is enormous for an impurity. For me it's a disaster for a film processing laboratory.
    George

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