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  1. #1

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    What does the final rinse in the Kodak E-6 kit do?

    I'm wondering if the final rinse (looks like a photoflo type product) is for archival purposes or not. I do not do this stage in my Jobo tanks for the same reason I do not use photoflo in them. Is this rinse critical or for drying purposes only.

    Thanks,

    Matt

  2. #2
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Yes, it is, and the explanation is in many many threads here on APUG.

    PE

  3. #3

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    Thanks PE, I'll try some more thread searching.

  4. #4
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    Get a tupperware for your final wash/photo-flo and put your film in their directly from the jobo reel. cover and swish around.

    I sometimes put my entire jobo (black) reel in there and wash, in a recent JOBO quarterly they stated it would in fact take years for the build up.

  5. #5
    MikeSeb's Avatar
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    I understood that the final rinses for E6 and C41 are not essential with newer films with integral stabilizers.

    Not so?
    Michael Sebastian
    Website | Blog

  6. #6

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    I have been doing the final wash in a beaker. I like the tupperware/cover idea. Does the film need to be agitated constantly or just occasionally making sure all surfaces are coated? I will admit I have shortened the final rinse time to 30secs to a minute in most cases. Good to learn now--and time to make sure I scanned them all. Thanks you both for your help. I also found a helpful Jobo article.

  7. #7
    hrst's Avatar
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    IMO, constant agitation is not needed. Some agitation in the beginning is enough, followed by some stirring. I do stabilizing/final rinse in the processing tank. I just detach it from Jobo processor, remove the cover and then pour in stabilizer/final rinse. You need it larger volume, but on the other hand, it's cheap and you can buy E6 final rinse as a separate product. This allows you to make a fresh new stabilizer more often, and if you use distilled/demineralized water to make it, you will get very clean film.

  8. #8
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    I have posted this so many times, here and on PN, I must have used a gig of storage for the reply, so here goes again!

    Do you need to stabilize color film, or can you wash after stabilization or can you use any stabilzer for color film... Etc.. Any statement about E6 and C41 stabilzers are in question here due to a change in the processes a few years back.

    At one time, Formaldehyde was needed to stabilize the magenta dye in C-41 and E-6 films. This prevented dye fade during dark keeping and growth of an orange color to the film. The problem had been solved for color paper in the 60s, but film still had a lingering problem. In addition, color films needed a bacteriostat and fungicide to prevent deterioration and formaldehyde served this purpose too.

    Well, along comes about 2002 and Kodak and Fuji finally solve the problem. Kodak and Fuji use a special bisulfite/formalin material in the E-6 pre bleach and then use a proprietary bacteriostat/fungicide in the stabilzer.

    For C-41, the solution involved new couplers which require no formalin at all, just the bacteriostat/fungicide in the stabilzer.

    These stabilizers are now called "final rinses" and they mean just that. You must NOT rinse the film after this final rinse. But it has other implications as well. The old stabilzers can be used with modern films, but the new final rinses CANNOT be used with the older films, say pre 2002........ So, this is a caution.

    Now, why does color film need a bacteriostat or fungicide. Well, for 2 reasons. First, the color products are loaded with tasty organic chemicals that the bugs love to eat, and second, finely divided silver is an excellent bacteriostat / fungicide all on its own. And, there is none in color film. It is all bleached and fixed out. B&W film still contains silver metal and is much more resistant to bugs.

    So, there it is, a complete explanation!

    And yes, Photo Flo is present in the final rinse, and NO in 50 years of use of Stabilzers and Final Rinses, I have never had it gum up my processing reels or tanks. But then, I wash them in hot water after every use!

    PE

  9. #9

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    Interesting, so is one of the implications of this is that you mine as well throw out any expired color film that expired pre 2003? If you send it to a commercial lab they aren't going to know and they are going to use final rinse, if you develop it yourself you have to get a whole new set of chemicals and deal with the more toxic formaldehyde- not good.

  10. #10
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    You re-rinse all old color films in an older version of C-41 stabilzer, as the current final rinse is not proper.

    E6 has not changed.

    PE



 

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