On a side note/back on topic, I just found another small bottle of Rodinal that I hadn't opened yet (I thought I had gone through all of it) so I will be shooting some Velvia 4x5 tomorrow and processing/scanning. Will post results.
Guys, I just had a thought that might help.
Rodinal has a VERY high level of Sulfite compared to color developers and the Sulfite is a powerful competing agent for oxidized developer and thus prevents dye formation. A special mix one-shot of pAP with low Sulfite might give you much more intense dyes. IDK, just a thought. I am not sure of the final level in the working solution but I would try to reduce it by 50% - 80% just as a test, if possible.
PE. Thanks again. If Rodinal does not go well tomorrow I will look into that. Also I just wanted to make sure you saw my post about Kodak. It got stuck on the bottom of the 2nd page.
This is 4x500mg tablets of paracetamol with sodium hydroxide... for 1 hour and 15min, 20c as I calculated 3.6 tablets for 1+10 parodinal/rodinal based off given 'net data.
I didnt want to lose any, so I didnt filter it... and its interesting you mentioned sulphite in that way, as I read a common filler for paracetamol tablets is sodium metabisulphite and I read on APUG somewhere sodium hydroxide converts it to sodium sulphite.
So that gives me a good mind to go back and do my methylated spirits + coffee filter to take it out
I didnt have to do any channel swapping on this one, still very thin.
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looking to get a bit more accurate there Athiril. I ran some Velvia through my Hasselblad X-Pan last night and it seems that I over developed the film a little... To my naked eye there only appears to be color in what were very vivid areas such as the gregor macbeth chart. I did some shots inside at the end when I got cold, but I was surprised to not find more blatant color out at night. I haven't examined negs with a loupe (hung them up and went to sleep) but the base looks like C-41 processed film and there are still traces of color so I will not give up! Usually all of the mixed lighting and long exposure leads to wild colors/saturation/shifts especially on velvia.
However I am going to try next time with a dilution of 0.25oz bleach to 9.75oz flexicolor fixer instead of .5bleach to 9.5oz fixer and today I will try with 4x5 velvia sheets so I can shoot, dev, examine, repeat!
If the base of any reversal color film is yellowish like C-41 films, this means that the yellow filter layer has been left behind, which indicates incomplete bleaching and fixing.
Of course, it could be fog.
Regarding Kodak -
PE ..... Just thought you might like to know some of us do love Kodak. I account for one. I began my pursuits in photography in high school in upstate NY (Saratoga) back when Tri-x and all the classics were in their early years and photography was fabulous and honest. My first film that I was to develop was 35mm Plus X, I loaded it into my brand spanking new Miranda Sensomat RE. I processed it in open plastic tank in D76 in my home built sink I made out of corrugated cardboard and fiberglass resin (true, and yes it worked). I made some small prints, some were decent and others were very bad using Dektol in glass baking pans. At that time Dektol came in cans (I still have some believe it or not). Everything I used was Kodak. All my photographic life I have had high regard for Kodak, they never ever let me down with product quality nor incredible amounts of thorough and crystal clear information. They have also always provided superb technical support. The fact that Kodak has always provided the best technical information in the industry, means every photographer on this planet should be unbelievably grateful to them for that benefit over the decades. I, like many others, have had some great disappointments in the recent past when Kodak has dropped some excellent products, for me, it was when they discontinued Elite and Tech Pan, then the recent loss of Kodachrome. Kodak was there for me in every regard when a neophyte, all through college, years as a professional, years as a commercial lab owner and even now. Kodak is a great American company, they have served the entire worldwide photo industry extremely well. Everyone, and I mean everyone, should be appreciative of that simple fact. Photographers that complain should put some of their disappointments aside and look more at the big picture of what they have made available to the industry. My hat is off to Kodak and all the dedicated hard working men and women who have made it such a great American success. I used to visit George Eastman House in Rochester, my favorite place of all time. If folks want to get a better feeling for Kodak and their incredible contributions to photography, I strongly suggest you visit the George Eastman House in Rochester, NY. It would be nice if people would once and for all stop the attacks directed at Kodak. Thanks for your knowledge sharing "PE", I am one guy that truly appreciates all you and your past associates have done and what the presnt group will continue to provide to us. Kodak has made serious commitments to analog imaging well into the future. If you want to learn more contact them and ask to be put on their professional contact list so you can receive company news. Tell them what you want and support them, they will listen.
I just figured if I add potassium permanganate (a really small amount) to the developing solution it should retard silver development to compensate for the weak dye formation, thus lower the effective silver development strength to match the colour developing strength... hopefully.. maybe... well no harm in trying!
This appears to be a major step forward, I used my parodinal formulation which I -think- is equivalent to 1+20 the way i mixed it up should be equivalent.. except with no sodium sulphite, touch of ascorbic acid, like a small pinch between the fingers to the concentrate, which was 60mls, i used 15mls of concentrate, and 50mls of potassium permanganate solution...1/4 of a teaspoon of pemanganate to 140ml of water.
Developed at 23c, for 50min-1hr, with agitation here and there.. not much and would normally result in heavy adjacency affects.. I cant see any on the negative I bleached and fixed...but when stretching the levels way out (as its thin) it is apparent.. but not by much... (just one frame, havent done the rest of the roll), still looks too thin, but this one is at box speed and is a lot better than previous tests.
The ratio of silver development to dye formation is still too wide... but the gap is smaller now, Im looking forward to the overexposed denser shots to see how they turn out after bleach and fixing.
I need to try another roll with the same formulation @ 2 hours, with more permanganate (or maybe just try adding some regular bleach?) (edit: also I might try the same formulation @ 35-40, 10-15min)
edit: also scanned while still wet as i couldnt wait, also while i levelled the channels to balance the image, i didnt touch the saturation, havent done any colour correction or channel swiching on this
edit: a +2 shot.. which is very strange because that yellow is right, but that green bin behind it has a strong red lid.. not green.. lol, wonder if im not getting red in the +2's
And how it appears to the scanner (similar range to others, better to my eyes, and more colour)
And a -2 of the same shot (4 stops diff to the one above), with a partial bleach bypass like the op, 1 part bleach, 5 parts fix, 5 parts water for a short period since I could see the red (cyan) on the negative in this one.
+180 on hue, then some level balancing and +30 saturation.
I think more permanganate is required, and also a hot solution, hopefully that will help with the small density range, and thus scanner noise from stretching the image out so far, as on average im getting 1/8th usage of the scanner range, otherwise the only other solution would be to dSLR + macro it, and possibly HDR it at 1/3rd stops to interpolate more separation to compensate for the bit loss.. though thats for another site I guess
side note on the colour correction: +90 on hue seems to bring back the red in both, to which i can correct the overall image with levels after, havent posted these examples though.
Last edited by Athiril; 10-22-2009 at 05:39 AM. Click to view previous post history.
Had a lot more success this time round.. this time I decided to mix in regular bleach (Agfa AP70), I used 25ml Rodinal as I ran out of my own formula, and 25ml of Agfa AP 70 bleach concentrate (working solution is generally 1 part bleach, 1 part water).
I did a stand development for an hour - no agitation at all - no adjacency effects.
Started development at 32c, 10min in was 30.5c, 26min was 28.5c, 1 hour was 27.5c
Could have developed much longer, probably another hour, but much much better already - I saw plenty of colour after washing developer off and examining before bleaching and fixing, this is after a partial bleach and fix.
I couldnt see much colour in the scan, looked monochromatic to me, so I thought too much bleach bypass effect, and did a full combined bleach and fix... it erased the entire image. nothing left on the film base at all!
Odd, and the image isnt monochrome. its just very very low saturation, but with the better density I was able to pull it up with heavy processing.
PE: Do you have a clue to why a blix would remove colour too?
Not all colours are right, Reala 100, +1 exposure compensation (1 sec, f/5.6, Kodak Ektar 127mm) cut piece of 120 in a 4x5" back.