Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,501   Posts: 1,543,362   Online: 830
      
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    39

    Kodak flexicolor c-41 b

    After about 6 months of frustratingly trying to source c41 chemicals in Beijing I ended up finding an all in one flexicolor kit made buy Kodak (wuxi) here in China. It cost me 180rmb or $26US here what's in the box.

    Developer replenisher A + B + C to make 10L {replenish @ 17ml/m}
    Bleach III NR replenisher 2.5L (no dilution required) {replenish @4.5 ml/m}
    Fixer and replenisher to make 20L {replenish @ 36 ml/m}
    Final rinse and replenisher to make 20L {replenish @ 36ml/m}

    I'm new to c-41 and have a jobo cpe2
    From what I've gathered I am missing the starting solution for both the dev and bleach (instructions mention them in the mixing stages). I'll have to go back and buy them.
    These replenishment rates seem very low, I guess though as I'm using a jobo with max chemical use of 600ml at a time I'll bottling the dev up in 1L jars and sealing the rest until required. Am I better of just using one shot or is it doable to replenish 1L quantities? I intend to run 10-20 120 rolls a week.

    Another thing mentioned in the kodak sheet is that this c-41b process requires no washing, is this true for jobo use, surely the chemicals will contaminate each other if not used one-shot.

    Interesting that this is available in China (C-41 even processed in the best labs here is terrible, maybe Kodak have realised), its not available in these quantities in the UK, seems perfect for job users like me.
    Last edited by wildtypitch; 01-11-2010 at 03:59 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    Nathaniel McMahon - Art Photography

  2. #2

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    309
    That's an excellent price for that much of chemicals. For USD$26 it would be 4 liters of C-41SM developer only and nothing else for me here in California from retail stores.

    You will need a C-41B (that means it's a LORR chemical) developer starter only. You don't need starters for the bleach and fix chemicals. C-41B developer starter is not the same as C-41 developer starter. Make sure your developer replenisher is LORR before getting LORR starter. If your developer is not LORR then you will want to get standard developer starter.

    I use a Jobo ATL-2300. I never succeeded in replenishing my developer. Kodak says never replenish the developer for rotary processing. I use my developer one shot only always. I don't know what it means by no washing. I would give wash between bleach and fix and after fix before final rinse. No wash should be done after final rinse.

    If you use the developer one shot and develop 10 - 20 rolls of 120 per week you can mix 10 liters at a time. The developer in glass bottles full will last more than a month.

  3. #3
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    I agree that's a great price. You only need starter for the developer, not bleach.

    When processing simply pour out the chemistry completely. The film needs to go straight from the developer into the bleach to stop the development. Wash in between the bleach and fix by filling, running briefly, and dumping once.

    I highly recommend skipping replenishment. To obtain high film quality use the developer to capacity and discard. This eliminates any issues with carryover/oxidation/evaporation/contamination that cause bad results. Use the bleach until it is exhausted because it's expensive. Use the fixer once or twice and toss because it's cheap. Wash for 3 minutes. I usually fill and dump the container 5-6 times, running it in between, about 30 seconds a piece. The wash water should be close to the other chemicals in temperature. Mix the stabilizer/final rinse with distilled water and hang to dry.
    --Nicholas Andre

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    39
    Thanks guys, the replenish math was giving me strange numbers, like I would have to replenish mid development.
    I agree and understand the need for start dev (it is lorr/c-41b) but as per the instructions the bleach IIINR also requires starter (it's part of the c-41b process that was designed to speed up processing and do and do without washes, so i'm guessing this is a modified bleach, hence the NR that requires a starter)
    For mixing the chemicals will normal tap water be fine (this is Beijing it's a little hard but clear may contain metals that make it unsafe to drink) I'm guessing de-ionised will be to unbalanced for the normal mix but great for final rinse deposit free wash. Can I mix the ABC dev (without water) and keep as stock or is this not recommended?
    For those interested I've sourced a company in China that makes jobo like processors, more info on this post
    Nathaniel McMahon - Art Photography

  5. #5
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    The bleach does not require a starter per some resident kodak Photo Engineer.

    Do not mix the concentrates. It fizzes violently and gives off noxious fumes. I've tried. They need to be added in the specified order with stirring to the specified amount of water. Although once I swapped the order by accident and it was fine AFAIK.

    I use distilled water to mix the developer (sometimes) but always the final rinse/stabilizer. This has eliminated the marks. For non critical work tap water is probably fine for the developer. You can try distilled and tap water and if you notice a difference, then use distilled.
    --Nicholas Andre

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    162
    "Another thing mentioned in the kodak sheet is that this c-41b process requires no washing, is this true for jobo use, surely the chemicals will contaminate each other if not used one-shot. "

    Jobo recommends a 3-minute rinse (6 changes of water) after the bleach and 5 minutes (6 changes of water) after the fixer.

    Kodak does not recommend a rinse after the bleach and only a 3 minute rinse after the fixer. I've been fiollowing Jobo's recommendations without any problem.

  7. #7
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Tufts University
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    1,750
    Images
    5
    If you're tossing the fix every or every other run it doesn't really matter if you wash in between bleach and fix. Kodak's three minute rinse is in running 100 degree water, like a tornado washer or whatever. If you're in a tank you probably want to follow the Jobo instructions for tanks.

    This is the kodak small tank bible:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/...als/cis211.pdf
    --Nicholas Andre

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    39
    The process is c-41B. Just want to make sure that those giving advice are also using the c-41b with 'bleach IIINR' (not bleach III).
    I've attached the Kodak sheet on it. which quotes at the beginning

    "The primary feature of this process is a shorter processing cycle. This cycle was
    made shorter by eliminating both washes and reducing the fixer time. Originally
    the process used a final wash, but the most common version in use today is the
    “washless” cycle
    ."

    But on the first page they state this

    "WHAT IS C-41B?
    C-41B is the original film cycle designed for C-41B
    minilab equipment. It has a longer bleach and fix
    time, giving an overall longer process time. It can be
    configured to have either a final rinse or a water
    wash followed by a final rinse.
    The kits are supplied as easy to mix liquids designed
    to be simple to use.
    All Kodak’s range of minilab chemicals are color
    coded on the cases, bottle labels and caps. This
    makes the chemicals easy to recognize and minimizes
    expensive mixing errors.
    The minilab chemicals are packed in specially
    designed bottles, which have excellent pouring and
    emptying characteristics, minimizing splashing and
    chemical concentrate to be rinsed out of the bottle."


    So has anyone actually used this process with a jobo? If so what do you recommend.
    Also I guess i should be shaving 15% of the processing times due to using a jobo rotary, or am I wrong?
    Attached Files
    Nathaniel McMahon - Art Photography

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    162
    I recommend that you check Kodak's recommendation for C-41 processing in a rotary tube and follow the recommendation. The developer time is 3:15 and all other steps are taken to completion which means that you could fix and bleach for longer - but not shorter - times without it having any ill effect. As far as the rinse between the bleach and fix as recommended by Jobo, other than it taking an additional 3 minutes, it can't hurt. Jobo believes it best to remove the bleach from the film before applying the fix.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    309
    What is C-41B? Good question. I am not sure I know the answer myself.

    I just looked at Kodak Z-131 at Kodak's web site. There are C-41, C-41B and C-41RA. C-41B and C-41RA are for minilab processors. I think they are roller transport processors. The Z-131 has tables that show the processing time for each step for each of these 3 processes. I found that:

    The development step for all 3 processes are all 3 min 15 seconds. The developer can be LORR or non LORR. They don't matter.
    The Bleach step for C-41 is 4:20' - 6:30'; 3:00' - 4:30' for C-41B and 1:00' for C-41RA. The bleach chemicals are different for each.
    The Fix step for C-41 is 4:20' - 6:30'; 4:00' - 4:20' for C-41B and 1:30' - 2:00' for C-41RA. The fix chemicals are different for each.

    I think I am using C-41B developer (LORR), C-41RA bleach and simple C-41 Fix. These were what they had and I got them that way. I am sticking to the C-41 time for each step anyway no matter what. I process my films in a Jobo ATL-2300. There are no problems except that I need to stick to Kodak's capacity recommendation, not Jobo's capacity numbers.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin