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  1. #51
    hrst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwfans View Post
    Now hrst is working out a home brewed bleach - a good news.
    Brooks is, in fact; I'm just testing his stuff . But it seems quite good.

  2. #52

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    This is encouraging.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    I've got the first results now, and I can say that;

    This stuff really seems to work. Brookse has done good work. I have perfect black and white, vibrant colors and only little crossover, and quite easily.

    There is only a very tiny bit of silver for blix to remove after the dye bleach and fixer.

    The very first test sheet was great. No problems arised yet.

    I'll continue to work with this and report when I have more specific results.

    I'm working with trays.
    Hello I have been finding following this post interesting I am curious are all your tests as to how well the process is working done via making a print and being happy with the result or are u actually running Ilfochrome control strips through your chemistry and comparing the results of a control strip to the manufactures? if not will u be doing this once your established and happy with the soup your making? i would love to hear further about this.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  4. #54

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    Stephen.. I must admit I was totally taken aback by your control strip post. Over a number of years I have been scouring the web pages of most US ilfochrome distributors, and have never seen any mention of process control strips, nor any manual which might accompany them. After your post, I immediately did a google search, and attempted a search on the Ilford site, with very little to show for it. The only google hits were for P4 and Ilford Micrographic film pdfs, which are quite useless. There was one vague illusion to P3X control strips in the specification section for P3X on the B&H site. This site would have to represent one of the top US distributors...but never has there been a stand alone entry for process control products. I believe that Wynit and Freestyle are dittos. Having used the classic Kodak Z-manuals for process monitoring, my main question to you is: Does such exist for Ilfochrome? If so, does the manual demonstrate common sensitometric deviations from the norm, and definitive corrective moves, specifically for each case. This information would be quite valuable. However, the initial excellent work by Hrst (Thanks 1,000,000 Hrst!) is being conducted with a formula which keeps active components to a bare minimum....but he is going to concentrate on capacity issues as he goes along. So, if the process control that you practice down under involves mainly replenishment rates etc. then its a bit premature. Another question... Exactly how do you use the dark blue spot on the right of the strip? What exactly do you do, if densitometry here shows deviation? Does it involve use of "conditioner" or "additive" ? Your input will be greatly appreciated!

  5. #55
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brookse View Post
    Stephen.. I must admit I was totally taken aback by your control strip post. Over a number of years I have been scouring the web pages of most US ilfochrome distributors, and have never seen any mention of process control strips, nor any manual which might accompany them. After your post, I immediately did a google search, and attempted a search on the Ilford site, with very little to show for it. The only google hits were for P4 and Ilford Micrographic film pdfs, which are quite useless. There was one vague illusion to P3X control strips in the specification section for P3X on the B&H site. This site would have to represent one of the top US distributors...but never has there been a stand alone entry for process control products. I believe that Wynit and Freestyle are dittos. Having used the classic Kodak Z-manuals for process monitoring, my main question to you is: Does such exist for Ilfochrome? If so, does the manual demonstrate common sensitometric deviations from the norm, and definitive corrective moves, specifically for each case. This information would be quite valuable. However, the initial excellent work by Hrst (Thanks 1,000,000 Hrst!) is being conducted with a formula which keeps active components to a bare minimum....but he is going to concentrate on capacity issues as he goes along. So, if the process control that you practice down under involves mainly replenishment rates etc. then its a bit premature. Another question... Exactly how do you use the dark blue spot on the right of the strip? What exactly do you do, if densitometry here shows deviation? Does it involve use of "conditioner" or "additive" ? Your input will be greatly appreciated!
    I am also surprised how little information is on the web about ilfochrome control strips however yes there is a massive amount of information supplied by the manufacturer regarding these control strips. All the information I have ever seen comes nicely supplied in hard copy. Three large binders (hundreds of pages) full of important information relating to the control strips how to measure them and what their readings mean and how to correct the process for hundreds of sensitometric deviations. This information delves into when first tanking up, use and replenishment info, conditioner info, additives, issues with temp, time and specific gravity etc...

    The mysterious blue dot at the end of the control strip is for measuring masking

    While we are on the issue I am curious how does the specific gravity of your home brew compare to the commercial product?
    Last edited by Stephen Frizza; 03-06-2010 at 07:56 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  6. #56
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    Unfortunately, most people do not have hydrometers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrometer) hanging around the house to measure specific gravity. This is probably unimportant in this "home brew" work anyhow as the formulas are quite different than the originals, I think.

    I have found two possible sources of Sulfamic acid though. One is marked 100% pure Sulfamic Acid and is sold as Etching Acid Crystals to be used in preparing concrete floors for painting or other coatings. The other, which I have not been able to verify except by hearsay is the cleaner for water stills. It is the acid cleaner used to remove scales from still condenser that accumulates over time when you distill water.

    PE

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by brookse View Post
    Stephen.. I must admit I was totally taken aback by your control strip post. Over a number of years I have been scouring the web pages of most US ilfochrome distributors, and have never seen any mention of process control strips, ... Another question... Exactly how do you use the dark blue spot on the right of the strip?
    What did I miss? Have you guys been talking off list?
    If you are unaware of any control strips, how do you know about the dark blue dot?

    Is the answer in this: There was one vague illusion to P3X control strips in the specification section for P3X on the B&H site.

    ???

  8. #58
    Stephen Frizza's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    What did I miss? Have you guys been talking off list?
    If you are unaware of any control strips, how do you know about the dark blue dot?

    Is the answer in this: There was one vague illusion to P3X control strips in the specification section for P3X on the B&H site.

    ???
    I posted a picture of an ilfochrome control a few weeks ago please see
    http://www.apug.org/forums/attachmen...2&d=1266923261
    Last edited by Stephen Frizza; 03-06-2010 at 11:49 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Its my profession to hijack time" ~ Stephen Frizza.

  9. #59

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    Thanks Stephen..

  10. #60

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    With reference to the Ilfochrome PQ B&W developer, and its replacement by a commercial MQ product such as Dektol(diluted), some previous thread posts are relevant:

    bwfans(above)includes a reference from PSA journal. But of course, only the first page is revealed at no charge. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...8/ai_11882356/

    Nevertheless one statement from that page seems to jump out:

    "Is there any trade-off [using Dektol]? Yes. You lose over a stop of sensitivity and considerable change in color balance as shown by the two examples."

    and there is the following APUG reference:
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/4...developer.html ......which includes

    A) an experimental entry by Lopaka:

    "Printing from a known image, one 8x10 each developer variant, same enlarger height, f-stop, time and filter pack. All from the same box of paper. All processing done on JOBO CPP-2 once and dump. Bleach and fix drawn from same working solutions mixed for the session. Alternate developers run at same time/temp as Ilfochrome dev. Where there is ref to sodium thiosulfate, it is crystal obtained from Digitaltruth, what looked to be approx 1/4 teaspoon weighed out at 0.8 gram on lab scale accurate to +/- 0.1 gram. Where used, it is at 0.8g/litre of working solution dev. Control print made with fresh Ilfochrome developer in same session.

    1) Dektol 1:3 - print ok density/contrast with some yellow shift, looks to be correctable with filter change

    2) Dektol 1:3 w/sodium thiosulfate - same as (1) but a bit lighter, like somewhat overexposed

    3) Ilford Warmtone 1:9 - almost a match for (1)

    4) Ilford Warmtone 1:9 w/sodium thiosulfate - pretty good match for (2) "

    and B) An entry from Mmerry:

    "I've had some success with Dektol 1:1 and ~1/4 tsp hypo/liter. The print is a bit duller than I'd expect, but that may be due to me trying a new process :-) Difficult for me to tell what is my fault, the fault of older paper and what is the fault of the developer mix. As noted above, dektol without the hypo introduces a yellow shift I found hard to correct for. I'll be doing more extensive testing in the upcoming months."

    All of the above refer to a major color shift with Dektol. Two of them define it as a yellow shift, and we can infer that this is likely the case with or without hypo. However, only in the last reference do we have the possibility that the yellow shift may be "hard to correct for."

    Based on the results Hrst has obtained so far, I do not believe we are suffering from any major, problematic color shifts using the divided developer. Furthermore, the theoretical increase in yellow/red saturation, due to reduction of parasitic blue absorbtions by both the magenta and cyan dyes, seems indeed to be induced by the inclusion of hypo(even if scanning may exaggerate the effect slightly).

    Hrst's result, also at 0.8g hypo/L, is in contrast to Wayne's entry in the above thread:

    "I came across one of the old divided developer formulas that used to work, back in the day (ie before my day). They only contain 1/8 teaspoon of hypo/liter. I tried quite a few using that quantity. I never had any troubles using that amount of hypo (they just didnt do much for contrast), so you might want to try that. Or you can derive your own optimal quantity from testing. Have fun."



 

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