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Even if Fuji 800Z is going away, we still have Portra 800, Superia/Press 800, Max 800, and Superia/Press 1600 for now.
But you can't deny it's happening.
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Yes, and we can also start topic "What happens after ISO 400 is gone?" and "What happens after ISO 100 is gone?" and so on. You can't deny it's happening.
And, in the end, the whole planet Earth will be destroyed. You can't deny that, either.
We will all die!
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Thread read, I will posit another possible arc for anytime after 2015: the ginger but unquestionable emergence of a new generation of entrepreneurial folks.
These people, either adopted film enthusiasts who came of age in digital or long-time film users, will look at the available formulas of and systems for desirable, unique films that were discontinued in the past — either recent or further back.
What they will do is adapt the manufacturing processes for a smaller scale to yield small batches (small, even on an order much lower than the tiny Konica SR-G runs or the Fortia SP ones). This manufacturing will occur exclusively in eastern and/or southern Asia.
Marketing and distribution will be managed exclusively online, and the product or products made by one entrepreneur will be sold exclusively from one place (if and unless third parties are willing to pay a licencing fee to sell in their shop directly). Research & development is largely done and documented in the data sheets for the previously-abandoned formulae, so the bulk of their engineering back-end comes from quality control and the nominal R&D to scale down manufacturing scope.
These entrepreneurs will not get into this venture because of nostalgia or thinking about the little people. They will be in there to exact a profit — not a mega-profit, but simply a profit. Otherwise, they will not bother. As to the film emulsions? That will be left up to determining where the demand is against the dual vectors of formula availability due to patent expiry and complexity of manufacture after re-tailored for smaller, artisan batches.
Per-unit costs for the consumer will be higher. But gone will be the immense frustration of hunting down where to buy supply and processing chemistry. Further, the consumers targeted by this model are those deliberate film photographers who know what they want, who know how their work is affected by the film they use, and enthusiasts who want to go beyond digital imaging. Trust me: a sizable number will look beyond digital.
I do see something like this happening. I cannot say when, but what this describes is nothing new.
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 Originally Posted by hrst  Yes, and we can also start topic "What happens after ISO 400 is gone?" and "What happens after ISO 100 is gone?" and so on. You can't deny it's happening.
And, in the end, the whole planet Earth will be destroyed. You can't deny that, either.
We will all die! I hear that the midwest United States will not be able to grow wheat in 40 years, because of climate changes and water shortages. Destroying the Earth would be taking the easy way out. No one ever got ahead that way.
No, it's a little different in this case. I don't think ISO 400 or ISO 100 have anywhere near as high a chance of going away. Simply, they're less expensive to buy, so more people can afford them. And they keep way better than the higher speeds (800 and 1600).
It looks like 800Z is going away (I just bought a bunch for a major project I'm doing this summer, so no big deal). Portra 800 has increased in price to between $7.50 and $9.50. Superia/Press 1600 is still available for the time being and still around $5 per roll. Same with Superia 800...still made. However, with Fuji stopping the manufacture of 800Z and the price of Portra 800 increasing 30-50%, I have to wonder if enough people will be able to afford it to keep it in production. I know I won't be able to buy much of it, so I'll likely switch back to Superia 800 and 1600. Kodak has no obligation to continue making a fast color neg film if it becomes unprofitable...even if they're the last man standing. Remember the tungsten films? Now that Fuji T64 is going away, there is no mainstream option left. Tungsten film, except for motion picture stocks, is history.
Professional 100, 160, and 400 speed film is much more affordable. Look at prices for Ektar and Portra: they range from $4.50 to $6.00.
I wish I could afford Portra 800, but at $10 per roll, it's not going to be something I can use in mass quantity.
I'm really convinced that the solution here to keep these products in production, is for those of us who do shoot professionally, or shoot rare gigs, or whatever...is to shoot film in addition to or instead of digital on paying jobs whenever practical, and pass the costs on to the client. Unless one is rich, hobby or fine-art shooting isn't likely to be sufficient alone to keep every type of film on today's market avilable for the next decade.
I think the following color films are in the most danger currently (not in any particular order):
Portra 800, Superia 1600, E200, Elitechrome 200, Sensia 400, Sensia 200, Astia 100F, Velvia 100F, EBX-100, HD-400. This assumes of course that 800Z, 160S, and 160C are actually already in the process of being done away with.
I think the following are relatively safe because lots of people always seem to use them: Velvia 50, Velvia 100, Provia 100F, Sensia 100, Provia 400X, E100VS, E100G, Elitechrome 100, Gold 100, Gold 200, Max 400, Max 800, 400H, Portra 400NC, Portra 400VC, Portra 160NC, Portra 160VC, Ektar 100, Superia 100, Superia 200, Superia 400, Superia 800.
Once a few more types are discontinued, I think we'll be safe for a while. I just hope that the one remaining pro 800 speed film is not one of them. The whole point of this thread is to prepare alternate methods in case.
Last edited by B&Wpositive; 03-14-2010 at 07:39 PM.
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I'm going to order some Portra 800.
Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time
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When did this price change happen?! Wow, that's a crazy hike. And $10.99 on Freestyle! It's still $7.50 on Adorama but of course...unavailable on the website. If I'd seen this post earlier I would've asked about it when I went there today...I was there to buy 800Z but I would've liked some confirmation on the price of Portra.
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In the last 6 months. I ordered some back then for $6.50/roll at B&H. It's a great film. When I get through what I have, I'll order more at the current price.
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Originally Posted by hrst ... It's all about the size of pool of products to select from.... Bzzzzzt! Boy, you've never had to argue with a bean counter. It's all about the margin, and nothing else.
Granted you're argument is partially correct (probably) because you can expect customers to migrate to another similar product. For example, many folks who cry about 320 will migrate to Tri-X 400 or maybe even TMax 400. Will they complain? Sure, but some will migrate.
But if C-41 800 becomes a money looser without becoming a loss leader on some other product, it doesn't matter if the choices are smaller. It just dies because it doesn't make money.
Now, don't get me wrong. The bean counters aren't "bad" when they intervene. That's their job, to lay out the cold hard facts and shove them into the executives faces. (I am not a bean counter by profession. Nor do I play one on TV. But I've got a cousin and a niece who are bean counters.)
True the executives can overrule them. Look at Kodachrome. That's had to be loosing money for several years, and the executives kept it until the 75th as opposed to say the 73rd. But you can bet there was a platoon if not an army of bean counters inside Kodak pointing out that it was killing them.
Michael
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Originally Posted by Moose38 Other than 2 rolls of 3200 in 20 yrs. I never shoot much over 400 asa. I really don't see much use for it. But at the same time. Discontinung any film right really bothers me. Because as film is being discontinued a relacement is not being offered. I'd agree with you for 35mm photography, especially when using lenses like my beloved Contax Zeiss 55 1.2 or 85 1.2.  BUT I have recently discovered the pleasure of medium format 6x7 and with much slower maximum apertures, when shooting outside a studio, faster films can be a boon. The quality of the RZ/RB lenses is so high that shooting at f45 or f32 can reveal incredible detail throughout the huge depth of field. I used a lot of Fuji 800 stock just for this purpose and I really miss it in medium format.  Indeed trying to find 400 film in 220 format over here in the UK is getting a lot tougher...
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all I see here is a list of negative sic, responses. people being a right bellend moaning and proclaiming the death of film on an Analog photo group. you are your own worst enemy. infact, some of you sound like co-intel pro from the photography corporations "i predict this will be gone" "oh that will die by 2012" get out and buy it. we know the new world order doesn't care about artistic endevour.
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