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  1. #11

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    Fredric,
    Maybe it's all Fuji-Chrome? I can't tell you for sure until I get back home. I am at my cottage and the film is not, but I will check Monday when I get home. I do know it is dated 1987 and it is 50D and 64T. So, now that I think about it you are more than likely right. Would I treat the Fuji-Chrome much different than if it were old, expired Velvia?

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    Its not overexposing if the film has lost sensitivity due to age. Overexposing + pulling works perfectly fine on E6.
    I know that you can pull process an E6 film.

    But a long expired E6 film will show a color cast and reduced Dmax if exposed and processed normally. If you expose at EI12 and process normally, what will Dmax be? I mean, the test procedure you proposed previously will likely give quite thin slides, wouldn't it?

  3. #13
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Pull process matched to the EI on old film would give the best Dmax afaik.

    I cant give you a number, but if the film has lost sensitivity, the Dmax - Fog @ box speed I assume is greater than the Dmax of the same film when it was fresh and exposed and processed normally.

  4. #14
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    Just play and enjoy. You've got a big stash of something that nobody else has; why not use it for its uniqueness.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  5. #15

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    Keith,
    That's part of my plan, but I just wanted to find the shortest path to the right road. I'm going to start searching the NET for all the info I can on Ciba/ilfochrome chemistry as I'd like to use the stash of paper. The last Ciba print I made was about 8-10yrs. ago and it's still as stunning today as it was then. I know of nothing that can compare to it for color, but I abandon color for B&W and that was the last Ciba print I made. Now that I've completely remodeled my darkroom and installed a new sink, thermal regulated/filtered water supply and a 4x5 colorhead I'm thinking of trying my hand at it again. I'll be 60 yrs. old in a few days and would like to do (and enjoy) some of the things I have been putting off. Lord only know how long I'll be able to flip the light switch in the darkroom. JohnW

  6. #16
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    If you want the shortest road, overexpose AND ask for pull processing, as I recommended. So, shoot the 50 film at 25 and ask 1 stop pull. It can't go so much wrong.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Wiegerink View Post
    I have 18 boxes, 10 sheets each of Fuji Velvia dated 1987 and stored in a cool place. 7 boxes are Velvia 50 daylight and 11 are Velvia 64 Tungsten. Any suggestions on exposure and development? I might have the film processed just to know if it's good and then do the rest myself as need be. Thanks, JohnW
    Does "a cool place" mean a freezer? If so, I give the stuff a good chance to be able to have some use other than cross processing.

    If "a cool place" means at room temperature that never got that hot, I wouldn't hold out much hope for it for "correctable" pix.

    Shoot one pic with each. Make sure the Velveeta is shot in daylight or flash and the 64 tungsten is shot in tungsten light. See what happens. It is all you can do to find out for sure.

    Overexposing and pulling expired transparency film will only exacerbate the problems it will have from old age. If you test it and it lacks punch in the blacks, simply use it for pix in which you don't want punchy blacks. You can't print through fog to bring it back down to black like you can with a negative film.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 02-27-2010 at 02:25 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    Overexposing and pulling expired transparency film will only exacerbate the problems it will have from old age.
    What is this based on? Have you tried it? I have done this and have the opposite experience, as I wrote. I have also read similar experiences here at APUG.

    OTOH, some expired Agfa I tried had yellowish low-contrast highlights and that would probably have suffered more from overexposing/pulling. Velvia was the one that had good highlight contrast but magenta DMAX and it benefited from pulling.

    Of course, too much overexposure will make muddy whites, even if pulling, that's why I wouldn't recommend 12 ISO as recommended by Athiril.

    One thing we probably agree is that testing is the only way to really know.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    What is this based on? Have you tried it?
    No, I am just saying stuff to say it.

    How on Earth would overexposing and pulling help a film that has lost max density and contrast? It has lost rich blacks, so you want to overexpose it to lighten them even more? Then you want to pull to flatten the pic even more? No. You want to do the opposite, if anything.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  10. #20
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    If you have done E6 processing, you may have noticed that push processing will reduce DMAX and pull processing will increase it. (For example, this old Velvia50 I mentioned, pushed experimentally to 200, showed a very poor unusable magenta DMAX.)

    This is because when developing for a shorter time in FD, less silver is developed in the (foggy) shadows, and thus, more dye is formed there in color developer after reversal. This is same for expired negative material; shorter development (pulling) also decreases fog. But for reversal material, this is more important way to fight against fog as you cannot "print through the fog" like with negatives, but the fog can spoil your blacks when projecting.

    So, the reason itself is the pull process. Overexposing is then "needed" to get it into right density.

    You are right that overexposure + pull process decreases contrast (as measured from the middle of the curve) but it may still be better to stretch the curve to give higher DMAX... Pull process increases the density range, which is different thing than contrast.

    I hope I got it right.

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