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  1. #61
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Athiril, that is an expected result. The dye stability may be poor but the imaging is quite good. It might even improve without the phenidone which cuts back on color image contrast.

    I expect problems with the Betadine for a number of reasons.

    PE

  2. #62

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    Thank you Michael. My photography hobby brings the most fun to my life, after my daughters.

    Okay guys, here are some results from my very first roll using only hair dye 1tsp to 12 oz water, Betadine 4 oz to 8 oz water, and non hardening Rapid Fixer BW.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2782071...7623463887609/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2782071...7623463887609/

    But my best results so far came from using Fomadon LQN for the 1st dev instead of the hair dye.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2782071...7623463887609/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2782071...7623463887609/

    I will try to get the ferricyanide and the bromide or some kind of C-41 bleach the next time I'm able to place an order. I would like to get some more of the Fomadon LQN anyway, because I really liked the results I got from using it with the Betadine and hair dye.

    I don't mean to be a "badword" but being called a liar doesn't set well with me at all. Them's fightin words.

    After the 1st dev in hair dye, the negative is so thick with silver you can't do anything with it. I think I will try to get some images of the negatives after the betadine and before the 2nd dev. See what that looks like...

  3. #63
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    Pickles:

    All of your above-referenced Flickr links are "private", so we cannot see them.

    By the way, no one here has challenged your honesty. If they did, without good cause, they would have have been challenged themselves.

    Instead, they have challenged your conclusions, and have raising questions about your methodology. This is because they are interested in what you have done, and how you reached the conclusions you did, not because they want to discount your participation.

    There is a lot of interest and energy on this site, and sometimes the differences of opinion can get strong, but rarely will you find disrespect toward those who are curious, and interested.

    One final thing - surely you cannot take it too seriously when someone pokes a bit of gentle fun at a screen name as whimsical as "Pickles".

    Welcome to APUG
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  4. #64
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    I became intrigued with the use of hair dye developer after seeing the experiments of Neelin and Pickles on Flickr. I went my own route and have not tried Betadine as of yet although that bottle of peroxide that is included with the hair dye kit is calling to me to dump it in too and see what happens. So far I am 50/50 with my various experiments between getting some kind of faint color image or totally clear film.

    I also think it is fun to continue to search for "household" products to process film in although I don't expect the image to be stable any longer than the time it takes to get the film through a scanner.

    The only kitchen sink way I can think of to see if an ingredient does anything is to waste a roll of shots of the same subject / same lighting etc. cut it in half and process both halves the same way except one with and one without the ingredient and see what happens.



    - aka half framed idiot (http://www.flickr.com/photos/playbassfishing/)
    Turning negative into positive since 1975

  5. #65

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    Hmm, they shouldn't be. I marked them as public before I posted the links. Oh well.

    There's a lot of denial going on here about the slant-ways sarcasm behind PE's posts, but whatever.

    The guy that called me a sour pickle wasn't haven't a bit of gentle fun. it was gang bully mentality going on. Saw it in Junior High quite a bit. He was trying to gain points with PE (that's sad) by agreeing with anything he said and being a brown noser.

    I don't have anything to prove to anybody about the experiment. I enjoy it. It works for me. If I wanted lab results it would be much cheaper to take the film to a lab and pay $2 if I wanted boring lab results. The same old same old. I don't. I like the wickety wack. A little something different.

    Apparently that's not y'alls bag. That's okay. Different strokes.

    I'm not going to kiss PE's butt no matter how much helpful info he has. It seems that's what he's used to here on APUG. Well, if ya have to kiss hiney to be here I'll leave that to you good folks. I can get all that info from books without having to brown nose and kow tow.

    If I was going to insinuate someone was lying I'd make sure that was the case, and I'd come right out tell them, "You're lying". I wouldn't do the old side-ways shuffle about it and then deny that's what I meant. I am not a wuss and I'm definitely not a liar.

    Thanks for the welcome.

  6. #66

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    The links are viewable now. Th-th-th-that's all folks.

  7. #67
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    Dear Pickles;

    No one has called you a liar. To say otherwise is itself a lie in fact.

    You may or may not be mistaken, but that is aside from the fact that your result is unexpected and people will question that. As for people "making points" with me, IDK that person really so what points can he/she make. As a scientist, I don't expect single point data as evidence, and I certainly don't accept the photos shown so far as reasonable color, except for those by Athiril. His show quite good promise. And, he does not "make points" with me.

    As for peroxide, it amplifies any color image being formed by a color developer. So the image density increases along with contrast.

    And, BTW, I am very interested in your results and will be the first to apologize if you are proven right, but as things stand, you are on the fringe so to speak. Now, I suggest that you photograph a color chart to see if you can get a full color spectrum or if the results are artifacts. Give it a try. I urge you.

    And please quit implying that I am calling you a liar. This shows that you are burdened by some severe misapprehensions regarding me and others here. I am trying to be quite equitable in the face of years of experience. Believe me.

    After all, to paraphrase the Asimov quote above "thats strange". I have really been pondering your results quite a bit and if you go away from this post feeling animosity, then there is a serious breakdown in communication.

    PE

  8. #68

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    Okay PE, I totally misinterpreted what you said. Well, I didn't but you can go ahead and claim that if you like. Fini? Fini.

    Athiril has been very helpful and courteous to me on Flickr. That seems to be pretty much the rule on Flickr. I have yet to encounter a "communication breakdown" with anyone there. We share without trying to impose our own opinions of what's acceptable or unacceptable. There's a lot of creative energy.

    Athiril's results are wonderful. I'm no expert but they look pretty much like they came from a lab to me. I'm sure the dyes are probably stable and all that stuff. He's using the right stuff. I'm not.

    Now. I did not use peroxide in the development of the photos shown in the links above. I only use the bottle of hair dye colorant, not the cream developer that contains the peroxide.

    I did develop a roll, I believe it was last night, using no Betadine between the 1st dev of Rodinal, and 2nd dev of hair dye with 3ml of peroxide added. I got no color.
    I then did the Betadine 20 minutes, re-devved in hair dye (newly seasoned batch) 15 minutes to no avail. Still no color. Examples below.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2782071...7623463887609/
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/2782071...7623463887609/

    I don't have the least idea about photographing a color chart. I am a raw amateur. I'm 45 years old but I've only been developing film for less than a year.

    I don't mind if the colors are inaccurate. I like them that way. You can't seem to get on the same page with me and I can't get on the same page with you. I suppose you're talking about trying for something like lab results. I don't want my pictures to look anything like they came from a photo lab. Maybe if they were Xpro but that's too expensive for me. So I get wacked out colors in my kitchen for pennies on the dollar of what it would cost to have a lab Xpro them. I'm miles ahead :-)

    Me and you look at things from two very widely separated viewpoints. I respect your knowledge and years of experience, I really do. But man! Break a rule every once in awhile. Loosen up :-)

    When I develop a roll of film, I'm like a kid on Christmas Eve. What will I get this time? It's excitement and joy. I feel like a kid again. Corny but true.

    I wish that for you and everybody here. Sincerely.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pickles View Post
    When I develop a roll of film, I'm like a kid on Christmas Eve. What will I get this time? It's excitement and joy. I feel like a kid again. Corny but true.

    I wish that for you and everybody here. Sincerely.
    Very well said!
    I agree a zillion times over!

    ----------------------------
    Please post your Rx and color pictures again, (or slip them to me by e-mail)
    I just tuned in and would like to see what your talking about !
    Be free of all deception, Be safe from bodily harm
    Love without exception, Be a saint in any form
    (Patti Smith)

  10. #70
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    Well, IDK what to say considering the "known wisdom" of some regarding the destructive effects of free halogens on dyes and couplers. Since Pickles results work in some hands and not in others (see Athiril's results above), there is more than meets the eye. When all is figured out, who knows, maybe Pickles should patent it. After all, it will have been proven to work and is novel and previously unknown.

    My reservations still center on not knowing what role Iodine is playing here, and the difficulty in getting good results, but as something to "play" with it certainly has some merit if for no other reason than to iron out the varying discrepancies and to try to explain what is going on.

    PE

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