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  1. #171

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    I'd think not, C41 processing requires continuous agitation throughout the 3:15 dev time.

  2. #172
    Mark Antony's Avatar
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    I can think of several machines/processors where agitation isn't constant. My dip and dunk machine would have a five second nitrogen burst every 15 seconds, when I worked a handline it was about 4 lifts of the basket every 30 secs if my memory serves me.
    Obviously minilabs are continuous as the film is agitated as it moves though the solution.
    If this kit is designed for a Jobo that would indicate continuous agitation, although I don't think all C41 requires it...

  3. #173
    RobertV's Avatar
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    Jobo is reversed rotary agitation. But on F the unit is not running very fast. (32 RPM).
    The C41 developing time is exactly 3:15 minutes ending by the elevator at 37,8C. The accuracy is about +/- 0,3C for the CPA-2 unit.
    Perfect negatives. But that was also with the K54 Amaloco kit. So the Rollei Digibase did not change anything. Just also a perfect C41 kit.

  4. #174
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    C-41 is C-41 is C-41. There's nothing "designed" "specially" "for Jobo". (Almost) continuous agitation is of course needed for C-41 and this is true for every kit. They all use the same developing agent (or should use it), which has the same properties, and the diffusion is largely controlled by film, temperature and time. I'm sure minor modifications could be made in other chemical components that would control the diffusion and/or oxidation of CD-4, but would they work without messing up color balance and contrast? It has, after all, to work with all films at standard temperature.

    This BS factory is really starting to irritate me. When there are problems, people say: "This is just repackaged Fuji chemistry, so it cannot be faulty!" And then, after a few moments, it's something super-hyper re-designed specially for Jobo, and it runs at every temperature. How can it be, if it's just Fuji chemistry? Or is it just Fuji chemistry? Or has Fuji designed this novel, groundbreaking product just for Rollei, and if yes, why in the world they won't sell it under their own name?

    I hear about terrible gunk after Final Rinse, I hear about consistency problems and leaking bottles. Instructions are proved faulty in many regards. They omit important washes, and they give false information that you can process at any temperature, giving the compensation list. I'm not surprised I was proven right by the test provided in this thread. The results are far from perfect, and far from the results at standard temperature. They can be interesting for experimenting, but that is true for any kit! Time-temp compensation works if the quality is compromised as a trade-off, but there's nothing new in this.

    I wish it was easier to buy C-41 chemistry...! There are many products on the market but most of them are very difficult to buy.

  5. #175

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    Well, I noticed when i was gently inverting maybe 10 times per 30 seconds that i was gaining a magenta mask on the negatives. The included instruction sheet stated that the magenta mask was a result of 'too vigourous agitation' as I lowered the agitation, the mask began to look clear and normal again.

  6. #176

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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    C-41 is C-41 is C-41. There's nothing "designed" "specially" "for Jobo". (Almost) continuous agitation is of course needed for C-41 and this is true for every kit. They all use the same developing agent (or should use it), which has the same properties, and the diffusion is largely controlled by film, temperature and time.
    This BS factory is really starting to irritate me. When there are problems, people say: "This is just repackaged Fuji chemistry, so it cannot be faulty!" And then, after a few moments, it's something super-hyper re-designed specially for Jobo, and it runs at every temperature. How can it be, if it's just Fuji chemistry? Or is it just Fuji chemistry? Or has Fuji designed this novel, groundbreaking product just for Rollei, and if yes, why in the world they won't sell it under their own name?

    I hear about terrible gunk after Final Rinse, I hear about consistency problems and leaking bottles. Instructions are proved faulty in many regards. They omit important washes, and they give false information that you can process at any temperature, giving the compensation list. I'm not surprised I was proven right by the test provided in this thread. The results are far from perfect, and far from the results at standard temperature. They can be interesting for experimenting, but that is true for any kit! Time-temp compensation works if the quality is compromised as a trade-off, but there's nothing new in this.

    I wish it was easier to buy C-41 chemistry...! There are many products on the market but most of them are very difficult to buy.
    Agreed most heartily. It seems that the best thing to do is buy the 5 gal kodak or fuji kits, deal with the space issue and the volume issue, and just shoot enough film to make it worthwhile.

    How can film chemicals be 'made specially' for a jobo machine?!? didn't the chems come before the machine?

    Anyway, I will be purchasing another digibase 10 roll kit, 'just to see' and i'll definitely post the results. Despite the industry bs, I feel another shot is in order...same with the unicolor. we'll see.

  7. #177
    Paul Green's Avatar
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    Well I purchased a maxi pack from AG and it arrived today, I shall be deving about ten rolls this weekend so shall give me findings also. I’ve used Tetenal kits for both E6 and c41 using a jobo. I doubt he meant that they were made specifically for the Jobo, it’s just that the instruction manual includes a lot of information on using the chems with the processor.

  8. #178
    Mark Antony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hell-on-a-stick View Post
    A
    How can film chemicals be 'made specially' for a jobo machine?!? didn't the chems come before the machine?.
    While that is true in the main there are many different types of C41 chemical kits available. The first one I remember being C41A for the disc film process, there is C41 RA for faster minilabs there is C41 LR (low rep rate) there is C41 AC high rep rate etc.

    Most of these have the same temperature and developer times the main differences being bleach type and times, C41A for the Kodak disc system used overflow (weaker) developer.

    I doubt this kit was made for Jobo but I know Fuji make different chems specifically for their minilab lines.
    Last edited by Mark Antony; 10-08-2010 at 03:32 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #179
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    I'm going to mix the first 500ml batch from my 2.5 liter Digibase kit today.

    The instructions don't say and I didn't find any info from this thread either: is it necessary to compensate the chemical exhaustion in CD, bleach and fixer times? Should I do the same as with Tetenal C-41 kit: additional 15 seconds in CD time after every 2 rolls of film, additional 2 minutes in bleach time after every 2 rolls of film?
    // Nikon F100 / Nikon EM / Rollei XF 35 / Minolta Hi-matic 7s / Mamiya M645 1000s / Yashicaflex / Welta Weltax //

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  10. #180
    hrst's Avatar
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    I think PE has posted the compensation table (scan from an older Kodak instruction) many times, they are for Kodak chemistry but they should work in the same way. Tetenal should also be same.

    Bleach and fix do not need extra time. At least this is the instruction in Fuji Hunt kit. Maybe if you overuse the chemistry, which is not recommended, then extra time can be good then. Tetenal's different because it's a blix kit.

    Fuji gives 9 extra seconds after 24 rolls in 5 liter (2.4 rolls in 500 ml), and 18 seconds after the next batch. I attached the FujiHunt instruction. But please ignore the "120" row, it has some error (this kind of phenomenon of 120 film being much different from 135-36 is not described anywhere else).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails fuji_ohjeet.jpg  
    Last edited by hrst; 10-11-2010 at 09:36 AM. Click to view previous post history.



 

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