Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,299   Posts: 1,535,799   Online: 681
      
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 82
  1. #31

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Ladner, BC, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    63
    yes, thats exactly what I was thinking. The ortho film would most likley be the same speed, if not slower than the infrared film, but, that could be fixed in printing with a loss of dynamic range.
    I just think this is a neat experiment!

  2. #32
    keithwms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,079
    Blog Entries
    20
    Images
    129
    Of course, even if you use the same film for all the component shots, you will need different exposure compensation factors for the different filters. Density versus exposure is not constant from blue to IR for any film.

    To make life as easy as possible, what you want is a film that has roughly equal density per exposure at the three (or four) center wavelengths of your filters. That's why I was thinking of superpan or similar.

    My guess is that if you shoot the IR separation frame with an rm72 filter then you'll need about 3 or 4 stops extra exposure time for that versus the red, green, and blue shots. For red you'll need, what, 2 stops exposure compensation typically. For green and blue you likely need a bit less compensation.

    Idea: if you wanted to make life really easy, you could combine your r,g, and b filters with an ND filter of appropriate optical density. Then you'd be shooting the visible shots and the shot with the IR filter at the same exposure time.

    Don't tie yourself in knots over it though, as long as you have good density in all the frames, you'll be able to handle the slight differences in density during the combination phase. I'd start by determining the optimal compensation factor for whatever IR filter you use, and then let that determine how you approach the other frames.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  3. #33
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    Here's some info for reference....

    There are two sets of tri-color separation filters.

    25 red, 58 green & 47B blue - Convenient because all filters share a filter factor of 8 (3-stops)

    29 red, 61 green & 47B blue - Purer color separations, larger color gamut (the 25/58 set has over 6% overlap while this set has less than 1% overlap)

    How many permutations are there for different ways to mix the colors? You've got 4 inputs, R/G/B/IR and you've got 3 outputs, R/G/B.... anyone better at math than me?
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  4. #34
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    Another option for combining separation negatives.... on RA-4 no less!

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/8...ml#post1065949
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  5. #35
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    Dean Bennici has got 500 rolls of fresh Aerochrome film for $24.50 plus shipping from Europe. It will run out quick and believe me I'd buy it, but I've got 4 rolls stockpiled and not even an MF camera!

    No need to miss it any longer.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  6. #36
    2F/2F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,008
    Images
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    What about making up your own colour separation images including a separation for IR by shooting a panchromatic/IR film with different filters? E.g. you could use r,g,b, and IR filters, shoot three or four separate frames, and then combine them as you wish to produce a colour neg or positive. It could be done in a purely analogue way. Since the IR films on the market are really edge-visible, I think I'd be tempted to shoot with g and b filters and use an IR filter for red + IR.
    That is exactly what I was going to suggest. It is a PITA, but if you want to do it you can. It needs to be an IR film that also has full panchromatic sensitization, i.e. HIE would not work because it is not sensitive to the entire visible spectrum. For grain with a more intense IR effect, go with the Efke IR film, and for sharpness with less IR, go for the Rollei. It will require some testing to figure out how to expose through each filter to get the proper color balance, but you can do it. In a recent thread I posted the info from the data sheet about how the emulsions and their sensitivity are structured with EIR.

    Of course, you are limited to static subjects with this method, and it is tons of work.

    If you are into alternative options, you can figure out what to do on the computer by looking at the data sheet for EIR. It tells you what colors in reality are rendered as what colors on the film, and you can monkey around and do that on the computer. To talk about that option in depth, try DPUG.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-21-2011 at 12:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  7. #37
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    I think it's a really cool idea. S. Frizza posted an example above in post #16 with this idea. It'd be really easy to do in a dye-transfer or other assembly method.

    And I think that for landscapes it might be worth the effort to make 3 exposures. Neater yet, get a hold of a 'repeating back' from days of yore.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  8. #38
    2F/2F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,008
    Images
    4
    I just had a thought that it would be interesting to do the R-G-B separations on a very sharp and fine grained film, and to do the IR separation with the Aura film, and/or slightly out of focus.

    As for the person who said this is not possible, it is actually how color photos were shot until color film was invented. And even after color film was invented and the capturing of images started to take place in one exposure, several photo printing processes relied on darkroom separation from the in-camera positive. It is also the way that litho printing, screen printing, etc. has been done and is still done to this day, though computers are used 99 percent of the time now to do the separations. I am sure you have heard the term CMYK. Well, that is the same thing Keith is talking about, basically.

    You make a filtered shot for each primary color of light, onto black and white film. Then you print each of these in register onto the printing material. This is actually the most accurate and controllable way to make color prints, as one can control the density and contrast of each layer individually.

    When going back to a positive, you can assign whatever color you want to each separation neg; it doesn't have to be C for the R-filtered shot, Y for the B-filtered shot, and M for the G-filtered shot. Not being so is how EIR worked the way it did. It was called a "false color" film because of this.

    So, using a different process, one should be able to get close to the effect of EIR, using only black and white films. You just have to know exactly how EIR rendered false color in order to do it, so you can assign the "right wrong" color to each separation.

    Another option for the OP would be to shoot one shot on transparency film, and one on IR film in camera. Then do the R-G-B separations from the transparency in the darkroom. Of course, you lose a lot of the contrast control through exposure and development that is available with b/w films. But your object does not have to be as still this way (only still enough for two exposure, not four), and the shooting routine doesn't involve as much monkeying around.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  9. #39
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    From individually taken separation negatives, you could even make a 4-color print using R, G, B and IR, which isn't feasible with integral film. One could make all kinds of different false color images.
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  10. #40
    2F/2F's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    8,008
    Images
    4
    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    From individually taken separation negatives, you could even make a 4-color print using R, G, B and IR, which isn't feasible with integral film. One could make all kinds of different false color images.
    That is the best for replicating EIR, I think. Though the film used blue sensitization on all of three layers, that could be taken care of with the additional B-filtered separation shot.

    Shooting them is not the hardest part. Registration on printing is. And what printing process will be used? Gum bichromate? A whole other learning curve. RA4 paper with registered enlarged contact negs? It might be the most feasible, but would definitely take more than your standard contact printing frame. You'd have to build (or purchase) a registration punch and easel that is designed specifically for contact printing. Registering in-camera film to an easel with your standard enlarger and neg carrier is going to be a bear. Registration marks on the film lined up with marks on a registration easel, perhaps...but it is registration by eye/hand, which is bound to introduce lots of human error.

    My question would be, what did you do with your EIR transparencies? Did you scan them to print them? If so, then staying 100 percent analog makes no difference anyhow. Just go the Photoshop route (on DPUG).
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 03-21-2011 at 01:20 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin