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  1. #1
    Bertil's Avatar
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    Tetenal C-41, coloured spots on film..???

    New on C-41, recent developing session unfortunately ended in a lot of coloured spots on the film, small more or less geometrical shaped spots in clean colours (cyan, magenta etc.) all over the film (seems as if on both sides of the film!). Hardly possible to see when looking right through the negative on the light board, but looking at the surface of the film from another angle it's easy to see. Also possible to see when scanning the neg (not always hard to correct in Photoshop).

    Equipment used: Jobo CPE-2, 2553 Tank, Film: Ektar 100 (120, 4x5"), Tetenal 3 bath C-41, process temp 30°C (86°F), pre-washed film in water for 5min 30°C, film #6-8 in the the same liter. According to Tetenal developing time 9 min, bleach fix 8 min in process temp 30° C. Unfortunately I think I developed for 10 min and bleach fix for 10 min.

    What's the problem? Overdeveloping, over fixing? Contaminated chemicals? Too old chemicals? (Chemicals used little bit more then 1 month old)
    /Bertil

  2. #2
    gephoto's Avatar
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    Hey Bertl,
    I think Tetenal recommends that you use the highest temp for consistent results. I don't have the data in front of me, but I think it's somewhere between 100 and 105 degrees F. How did you see these defects? Are they obvious to the unaided eye or did you use a magnifying glass to see them? I haven't noticed any such problems with my Tetenal C-41 kit and have enjoyed how easy it is to use. Try the higher temps and see if the problem goes away.
    Best of luck and keep us posted.
    Grant

  3. #3
    hrst's Avatar
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    C-41 should always be run at 100F/37.8C, changing this will results some color crossover and reportedly saturation loss. However, it should not cause colored spots. Can you scan an example? IMO it sounds very odd.

  4. #4
    tiberiustibz's Avatar
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    Though this is probably not the problem, it's best to run your C41 at C41 specifications.

    Spots would have to be due to something spilled on the film, or some other time when a droplet of water or chemical could sit there. Any number of ways unfortunately. you can try a re blix, wash, stabilize but that's about it.
    --Nicholas Andre

  5. #5
    Athiril's Avatar
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    The Tetenal kit from my experience produces excellent results from the 8min/30c time.

    Tetenal recommend the 8min/30c time in their instruction book if ~38c with the shorter time produces uneven results (assumedly from not enough agitation intervals in that short time period). So 30c is recommended for more consistent results.

    I had my Tetenal producing great results for a year.

    Do the spots wash off?

  6. #6
    Bertil's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your comments. I don't yet have a URL to upload images to this forum, BUT I have uploaded to the Technical Gallery a picture trying to show the spots, Grant: no problem seeing them!
    About temperature: my manual for Tetenal , Colortec C-41 Rapid negative kit says exactly what Athiril says. (I will be back have to, have to do som other arrangements!)
    /Bertil

  7. #7
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Bertil that looks liked flaked off emulsion from that or another film, which can happen on plastic reels sometimes if you take the film out after development at any point and then put it back on the reel while wet. I used to do that all the time to inspect, but I never had the flakes stick to my film.

  8. #8
    hrst's Avatar
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    Can you find spots on film (or other films processed in the same tank), especially on the corners, where some emulsion is missing?

  9. #9
    Bertil's Avatar
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    I think you guys, Athiril and hrst, are on the right track! "Flakes" is the right word pointing to a solution, not "spots" as I used; and, yes, some kind of damage to the emulsion is perhaps the most reasonable suggestion. I have now refixed one sheet and just tried to wash another sheet, they are still wet, so I will wait to see if something has changed.
    Assuming that it's some kind of damage to the emulsion, rather than something with the chemicals, I started to think what I did that differed from my earlier very limited C-41 experience (5 rolls 120-film in a ordinary Paterson tank (38°/100°F) with ordinary agitation each minute, and 4 rolls at 30°C/86°F, 1 roll 120-film in a Jobo CPE-2 with a 1520 tank at the low rotating speed on the Jobo machine). First this time I used, as recommended by some sites, the faster speed on the Jobo machine; I used a bigger Tank: 2553, and with this new tank I found another method for washing which looked very effective but probably TOO effective, the water flow probably too rough, perhaps the control of even temperature during washing and stabiliser wasn't the best.
    Perhaps the "flakes" are not something ON the film surface but rather some pieces of the emulsion that is missing, due to improper treatment. Sounds promising! My recent treated sheets are now quite dry and nothing seems to have happened to the "spots", which confirms my suspicion that it's rather flakes of emulsion that is missing.

    I will soon make a new try and be more careful in the later stages of the process, and see if this is the solution!
    Now, developing 4x5" sheets and 120-film (negative colour film) with the proper Jobo film holders in a 2500 type Jobo tank, should I use the slow or the fast rotating speed?
    Many Thanks for your smart comments!
    /Bertil

  10. #10
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Since the frame is ruined anyway, run your finger over the flakes, they look like stuck on flakes to me, or place the film on a flat surface get a stanley knife go to cut the film, but instead of cutting, turn the blade over 90 degrees so its parallel to the film surface, run it over the surface of the film and flakes, and see if you feel bumps with the knife etc, or try scraping one off.

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