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  1. #41
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Oh, another consideration, hopefully final :-)

    When I received my Ornano kit, I think it was around January this year, I saw that the production date on one product was 2008. I had bought it at an internet shop, so I phoned Ornano to know if this chemistry was still valid.

    The person I spoke to told me that it was normal. The development for instance shows .270608 which means it was produced in June 2008, this was deemed normal, request for E-6 chemistry is not high and production is run in batches and a long time passes between a batch and another. If I get it right, more than a year, that is, and possibly two considered that I received in early 2010 a batch produced in June 2008.

    My understanding is that a firm would not announce discontinuation of a product until really the moment comes of making a new batch and they decide that it is not the case.

    I don't know this 5L and 10L chemistry from Kodak, but I would not be surprised at all if basically what they decided was to pack the new batch only in 10L packs. The next batch will be produced, who knows, in one year time, and by that time things might have changed again.

    That's my understanding of how things should work. Phoning Kodak customer service would probably give definitive answers.

    Fabrizio

  2. #42
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    I've been doing some digging around about the Kodak E6 kit, helped by a link sent to me by Tom Kershaw.

    The kit we used to sell, 525 6763, was made in France for the European market - ie it was the same, but a little different. As with all Kodak chemisty made in France (by Champion) it was either discontinued or replaced with US equivilents recently. But some items were not replaced with the US equivilents, even if US equivilents existed. I have found the US single use E6 kit is different with a different cat number so I have requested from Kodak that we get it for Europe too.

    If it is still made in the US, and if it can be made available for Europe too, then sales will improve overall.

    In the meantime we do have the Fuji 6 bath kit, although it is a lot more expensive. http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/fuj...-5l-1758-p.asp

    We will be listing all the larger separate lab packs soon, which of course work out the best value, but only if oyu are prepared to take on a lot of processing!

    Matt

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by warrennn View Post
    Interesting. I wonder what the difference between ZoneIII's and Rob's procedures were? Was Rob merely lucky or where they doing things differently?

    Warren N
    Warren,

    I replied to ZoneIII in the previous post to see what he did to experience "ruined" chems and film; not much info was provided. I just recently processed a batch of film from my frozen chems and they turned out perfectly as always.

  4. #44

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    Thanks, Rob. It would be nice to find the key to successful freezing. I am buying up the last stocks of E6 5L kits wherever I can find them and expect to use my "reserve" for the next 10 years or so. Freezing sounds like a possible way to preserve the kits for this period. Do you have an estimate of how long one can keep these chemicals in the frozen state and still find them useful?

    Cheers,

    Warren N

  5. #45

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    Warren,

    I'm not sure how long the chems will last in a frozen state but I personally used a set that had gotten "lost" at the bottom of the deep-freeze which I believe was about 6 years old. I was skeptical at first but upon thawing, all components looked just as they should when mixed fresh. They also performed admirably and the films (Velvia) turned out fine. I have my deep-freeze set quite cold, about -22 Celsius and the chems are frozen solid. I'm pretty sure not much oxidation is occurring at that temp.

    When I first started doing this, I had taken a few rolls of film and made psuedo test strips so that I could periodically check to see if there were any adverse effects caused by freezing. Every now and then, I'll run a strip and compare to the original and I can't detect and differences even after pouring over the lightbox until I'm cross-eyed.

    I know many are surprised when I suggest freezing but they really shouldn't be; the concentrates in the E6 5L kit dissolve very readily in water with almost no stirring required. And once mixed, the working solutions are quite dilute, mostly 80-90% water.

    Anyway, if you want to know more, I'm glad to help in any way I can. Reply here or send me a PM if you wish.

  6. #46

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    Thanks, Rob. Six years sounds wonderful.

    I am currently doing a lot of RA-4 printing -- does freezing work with the RA-4 chemicals also? Although I just started, some people are warning that opened bottles only last for a month or so.

    Happy Thanksgiving,

    Warren N

    Ooops, I am a bit late -- Thanksgiving is a in Oct. in Canada.
    Last edited by warrennn; 11-25-2010 at 02:25 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #47

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    Warren,

    Can't speak to RA-4, never done any traditional color printing so not sure how the chems would react.

    As for the E6 kit, I just checked Calumet and they're now officially listing it as "discontinued". Have heard that they're scarce here in Canada too; not many in the distribution chain.

    Myself I think this is the straw that will push me to the dark side finally. I've been shooting and processing my own E6 for years and while I enjoyed the experience tremendously, without the 5L kit it's just not worth it. Can't imaging using the 10L chems with their starters etc. Besides, those chems are really designed for a lab environment and for replenishment. The beauty of the 5L kit is that it was designed to mix up in a variety of different water conditions without the need to monitor or alter pH levels and such. I don't know if one would be able to get equally good results from the 10L sizes in the home environment.

    Kinda depressing really but as they say, all good things must come to an end.

  8. #48

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    I can understand how you feel, Rob. It will take far more than this to push me to the dark side. As an amateur, the point of photography is enjoying the process and tools. The workflow and equipment in the alternative process are simply uninteresting to me: I hate cameras which seem to be little more than plastic computers with optics apparently attached as an afterthought and I hate looking at photos on a computer screen or using photoshop to do the necessary processing in order for the results to be presentable.

    I don't think I would mind mixing the chems in the 10L kit; my objection is price. The cost per liter of working solution seems to be at least twice that of the 5L kit. I suppose one could follow your procedure and freeze the solutions. My understanding is that the starter materials simulate the processing of film with new solutions and that leaving the starters out might not make much difference.

    I am enjoying RA-4 print processing and have mixed the solutions without starters with no apparent adverse effect.

    Good luck.

    Warren N

  9. #49
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    Sorry if I insist. I just relate here a fact I know regarding another E-6 6 bath product, the one produced by CPAC - Ornano

    This product is the very same for one-shot use with rotary processors, and for minilab. For the same chemistry, you can also buy the starters and the replenishers, because that would you need if you want to use it the way minilabs use it. If instead you want to use them one-shot, you use them without replenishers and without starters. The "basic" chemistry is exactly the same.

    So, I wonder, E-6 being E-6, why shouldn't this be true for Kodak also?

    The fact that Kodak markets their 10 litres product indicating the use of starters, replenishers etc. may be simply the result of the fact that the main "target" of 10 litres solution is the minilabs markets. I deem very likely that the chemistry used in the 10l kit is exactly the same as in the 5L kit (the 5l kit has the same chemistry, but without starters and replenishers).

    Before giving up, I really would phone Kodak. If Ornano does not bother about making two different e6 six-baths chemistry, and sells the same both for rotary processors and for minilabs, why should Kodak choose to produce two chemically different products? Maybe PE can be of assistance on this matter.

    Hope this helps

    Fabrizio
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diapositivo View Post
    Sorry if I insist. I just relate here a fact I know regarding another E-6 6 bath product, the one produced by CPAC - Ornano

    This product is the very same for one-shot use with rotary processors, and for minilab. For the same chemistry, you can also buy the starters and the replenishers, because that would you need if you want to use it the way minilabs use it. If instead you want to use them one-shot, you use them without replenishers and without starters. The "basic" chemistry is exactly the same.

    So, I wonder, E-6 being E-6, why shouldn't this be true for Kodak also?

    The fact that Kodak markets their 10 litres product indicating the use of starters, replenishers etc. may be simply the result of the fact that the main "target" of 10 litres solution is the minilabs markets. I deem very likely that the chemistry used in the 10l kit is exactly the same as in the 5L kit (the 5l kit has the same chemistry, but without starters and replenishers).

    Before giving up, I really would phone Kodak. If Ornano does not bother about making two different e6 six-baths chemistry, and sells the same both for rotary processors and for minilabs, why should Kodak choose to produce two chemically different products? Maybe PE can be of assistance on this matter.

    Hope this helps

    Fabrizio
    This is a very interesting observation. I do hope PE can answer about this, or anyone knowledgeable for that matter.

    If the 10L kit can be used one shot in a rotary processor, and especially if the freezing discussion turns out to be a good mechanism for extending shelf life, then this isn't so bad.

    I've been trying to decipher the E6 and C41 chemistry for a while, but I'm interested in one-shot rotary processing. I'm not interested in giving up my processor. I've gotten used to loading the tanks, and setting the parameters, and then expecting the machine to prevent processing errors.

    (Too bad it can't fix exposure errors!!)
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

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