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  1. #1
    pandabob's Avatar
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    Non Kodachrome slides with embossed images? What am I seeing?

    I'm scanning in a slide collection for a coworker that has slides dating back to the early 60's. Up until this point everything I've seen (including other vintage slide collections) the only slides that have had an embossed image on one side was a Kodachrome slide mounted in a Kodachrome cardboard mount. Anything else was smooth on both sides.

    In this collection, however, I'm seeing some slides with an embossed image that are in non Kodachrome mounts (actually... non Kodak-branded mounts) that have embossed images. These slides are branded, "Sears", "Anscochrome", or generically "Color Transparency."

    The little bit that I know about the history of Kodachrome and slides in general is that Kodachrome used a very unique process and very few labs even processed it, moreover for a long time it was Kodak-only? I understood that only Kodachrome had an embossed aspect to it and I've always assumed that all Kodachrome slides (especially pre 70's) were mounted in Kodachrome-branded mounts.

    So, somewhere my information is wrong/incomplete...

    My primary concern, beyond trivial photographic history, is wether or not I should treat them as Kodachrome in terms of scanner settings.

    Any help clearing this up would be mucho appreciatedo.

    -Steve

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    Steve,

    I believe a number of labs processed Kodachrome when it was popular. I have slides that I took back then developed in non-Kodak labs and some of those also say "Color Transparency" on them, and some say nothing at all, but they are Kodachrome. Sears may have processed Kodachrome at one time, I don't know.

    Dave

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    Kodachrome was Kodak-only until 1955, when the consent decree mandated Kodak sell its chemicals to other labs. In addition, there were a few Koda-clones out there, the most famous being Dynachrome, started by Kodak engineers after they left EK. Although it's past your time range, I have noticed some E-6 has an embossed image after processing, although it's nowhere near as clear as Kodachrome. In fact, I am looking at a roll of EPN right now that seems to have an embossed image when held at an oblique angle.
    "Panic not my child, the Great Yellow Father has your hand"--Larry Dressler

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    I can look at the Kodachrome slides I got back last week from Dwain's (yes it took that long) and an E-6 slide from yesterday that was supposedly processed by Fuji (I think Dwain's did them as well, but I have no proof) and the mounts are identical right down to the dating and numbering on the slides. My guess here is that you can't go by the mount alone, if it says Kodachrome it is Kodachrome, if it doesn't say Kodachrome it still might be Kodachrome.
    "Would you like it if someone that painted in oils told you that you were not making portraits because you were using a camera?"
    "Shouldn't it be more about the joy of producing and viewing the photo than what you paid for the camera?"

    Me

  5. #5
    pandabob's Avatar
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    I think I might have some of both (Kodachrome in non Kodachrome mounts vs. "Koda-clones".) Some of the non-kodachrome mounted slides have very distinct embossings when held at an angle while some are more slight. The Kodachrome-mounted slides have a VERY distinct embossment, comparatively speaking. I'm not sure that (before now of course...) I've ever noticed any embossing at all on say - Ektachrome - on my own slides and some of these here in this collection. That could be due to the way I'm holding them to the light, but the known non-kodachrome slides are smooth as glass.

    Was Anscochrome a "Koda-Clone" or was it E-4/E-6? Were these clones similar in color balance - by way of the considerable difference in processing chemistry?

    Thanks for the replies!

  6. #6
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    There were 3 other "Kodachrome" type films made and processed by Fuji, Konica and Dynacolor. This stopped in the 70s, but up to then these companies processed Kodak Kodachrome and other brands along with their own, and did it with either their own slide mounts or generic mounts.

    PE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    There were 3 other "Kodachrome" type films made and processed by Fuji, Konica and Dynacolor. This stopped in the 70s, but up to then these companies processed Kodak Kodachrome and other brands along with their own, and did it with either their own slide mounts or generic mounts.

    PE
    Ilford (UK) made 'Ilfachrome' and 'Ilfochrome' films in the 1960's; both non-substantive films. I have some examples of the latter film, they look every bit as good as the few Kodachromes in with them. The Ilford slide mounts are red on the reverse side; my examples are the same as those there. http://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Il...hronology.html
    testing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandabob View Post
    .

    Was Anscochrome a "Koda-Clone" or was it E-4/E-6? Were these clones similar in color balance - by way of the considerable difference in processing chemistry?

    Thanks for the replies!
    Ansco was the American associate of Agfa in the 1930's, and I have read that they based their wartime reseach to introduce Anscochrome on the original Agfacolor slide film? I've read that it was similar in principle to Agfa, but the exact processing proceedure was not interchangable.

    I have some transparencies taken by my late Father around 1960, on Ilford Colour Film and on Dynachrome (when it was repackaged as Gratispool Color Slide)...the Ilford is pleasing, very similar to Kodachrome of the same time, and has lasted perfectly, while the Dynachrome has dull colours and a significant magenta hue. That could be due to the Gratispool budget processing...I believe that they were regarded as a "cheap-and-cheerful snapshot" operation.

    I remember my Father (or maybe my Grandfather, who was also a keen photographer in the 1940's/50's) saying that the cassette labels of the earliest versions of the Ilford Color Slide film each had a batch number on them, which had to be left intact so that processing adjustments could be made for best results from each particular emulsion. No idea if that was true?
    Last edited by railwayman3; 01-27-2011 at 03:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #9
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ansco Color was indeed very similar to Agfa Color of the time period.

    I have read the Ilford history and although Ilfachrome (later Ilfochrome) may be a Kodachrome type film with no couplers, it does not explicitly say so in that history, so I am not sure. I do know that Ilford had a negative and a positive film that each used a proprietary process. Both of these, at the time I was familiar with them were coupler containing films.

    PE

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    I have read the Ilford history and although Ilfachrome (later Ilfochrome) may be a Kodachrome type film with no couplers, it does not explicitly say so in that history, so I am not sure. I do know that Ilford had a negative and a positive film that each used a proprietary process. Both of these, at the time I was familiar with them were coupler containing films.

    PE
    I'm 99% sure that the original Ilford Colour Slide film of 1948 was a Kodachrome type, but it's past midnight here, so I'll need to track this down definitively tomorrow!

    The later variants of Ilford slide and neg films of the 1960's and early 70's were rather so-so in performance, certainly not competitive with the quality of the Kodak, Fuji and Agfa products being introduced at the time. They tried various sales gimmicks such as contact sheets, slide folders, competitions and a free magazine with returned slides, but in the end they withdrew from color film manufacture. (Although they did have another try some years later with a consumer C-41 negative film (maybe suppied by Konica?).)

    (Of course, this was all the "old" Ilford company, nothing to do with the present Harman/Ilford.)
    Last edited by railwayman3; 01-27-2011 at 06:22 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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