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  1. #41

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    Window light = open shade, if the sun itself is not coming through the window as well; the illumination is coming from "sky light," which is blue.

    The point was that it is hard to judge how the film held up to age unless it is shot under illumination that is near it's intended kelvin temperature. Unless the sun is coming through the window, window light is just like open shade.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  2. #42

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    oh, ok.

    But then again, I did not use any filters.

  3. #43

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    Yes, that was my point. If you had, we would be able to tell a little better how the film aged.

    Not that the photo is bad. That is not what I am saying. I am only saying that it does not provide a ton of information on how the film aged.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  4. #44
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I'm going to disagree slightly with 2F/2F.

    A subject lit with even, full daylight spectrum light will indeed tell you more about the condition of expired, daylight balance film.

    But a subject that is lit with even, open sky spectrum light will tell you about the film's response to blue light and other colours exposed to predominantly blue light, and in my experience film that has deteriorated due to age doesn't respond well to those conditions.

    So there is something to be learned - and your film seems to have done well.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  5. #45

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    Here is an extreme case of expired film sustained an extreme bad storage condition.

    A few years ago I had one roll of Fuji slide film, by accident, lost in my garden for about one year. It was summer, then fall, then winter, then spring, and I finally discovered it one day in the spring grass. It is a small object so grass may well covered the film. The plastic wrapper shielded it from water damage. I open the plastic wrap and found the film is still dry. I shoot the film as usual. After development I found it has some color shift otherwise all images are still quite good.

    Since then I never ever believe that all films strictly requires freeze, or refrigerated, or cold stored, etc. I believe proper room temperature is sufficient for most of modern films even after years of expiration.

  6. #46
    Bill Burk's Avatar
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    I keep planning to do sensitometric tests to prove it but...

    I still believe slow black and white film keeps indefinitely. For example I still shoot Panatomic-X of unknown heritage that I bought on an auction site and put in the freezer. I cannot tell the difference between vintage (shot and developed while fresh) and current negatives (shot now and developed now but expired '84).

    My hunch is that gamma rays affect slow film less than, say, a 400 speed film. The key (my un-scientific hunch) is to shoot and develop reasonably quickly so the latent image doesn't fade. By that logic I imagine a vintage photograph (shot while fresh in '84 and developed now) would be 'worse' than a fresh shot developed timely on expired film.

    Bill

    ps I work for Kodak but the opinions and positions I take are mine and not necessarily those of EKC

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    I'm going to disagree slightly with 2F/2F.

    A subject lit with even, full daylight spectrum light will indeed tell you more about the condition of expired, daylight balance film.

    But a subject that is lit with even, open sky spectrum light will tell you about the film's response to blue light and other colours exposed to predominantly blue light, and in my experience film that has deteriorated due to age doesn't respond well to those conditions.

    So there is something to be learned - and your film seems to have done well.
    It was blue in blue light. That is saying something!
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    It was blue in blue light. That is saying something!
    not sure I understand.

  9. #49
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    photoworks, you're picture definitely confirms that expired film can capture an image that has "enough" color information (if not plenty!) to be perfectly usable, even for important work. Particularly in the age of hybrid editing techniques, nearly any color shift can be compensated for.

    I once shot a roll of Velvia 50 and it came back red. It was badly heat damaged, yet, all the pictures were salvagable.

    2F/2F, I think we should give you the title of "Devil's Advocate in Residence"...
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by photoworks68 View Post
    not sure I understand.
    I am saying that it is probably pretty close to neutral.

    The previous point was that we don't know exactly how close it is to neutral unless it is shot under it's intended kelvin temp of light.

    A devil's advocate argues from an unpopular viewpoint simply for the sake of creating a well-rounded discussion of an issue (and usually not necessarily because it is his or her actual belief). I am being more like a Debbie Downer. But the reason is to prevent the poster with the example from being disappointed – simply to encourage a test that will tell him or her more before devoting "important" pix to the old film.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 08-15-2011 at 05:13 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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