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  1. #11
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    Anyway, my point was that with 1 liter kit you certainly can mix it all at once. It is so much easier and "safer" that way against any kind of measuring errors.
    Well no, that's the whole point: mixing everything in once & thus being "safer" against measuring errors doesn't mean much if the manufacturer hasn't been accurate to start with.

    If I mix a possible next packaging in one go, I will first measure the contents of each bottle, in order to safeguard against measuring errors by the manufacturer. I'd consider that the safer method.

  2. #12
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    You may be right. On the other hand, the manufacturer might have the instruction wrong but the amount of active chemicals in the bottle just right, with varying water volumes! This is the case with many chemicals. For example, most Kodak color chemicals are meant to be mixed as whole bottles, and they don't give instructions on splitting the concentrates at all, nor they will tell how much there should be.

    With Tetenal, who knows? It may be that the instruction is wrong about splitting, and you should have mixed the whole liter at a time without measuring anything; or, it can be that the instruction and concentration is right and they put a wrong amount in the bottle. It has to be either one of those according to your results (and I believe that you didn't make a mistake in measuring), but we can never know which one was the problem, without a chemical analysis.

    I stopped using all Tetenal products because of the quality problems in RA-4. This is actually not surprising.

    However, I have a "feeling" that the most general way for color chemicals is that the bottles have the actual, correct amount that, when mixed as instructed, will give right concentrations. It should be the way they are designed. Then, splitting may be an extra feature. But again, can't know about Tetenal. Maybe you should ask them.
    Last edited by hrst; 04-06-2011 at 06:25 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #13
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    Here I can only get the powder Tetenal C-41 kit delivered to me. Since it is powder I just mix the whole thing up, giving me 1L developer, 1L blix and 1L stabilizer. It works great! I've developer 24 rolls with it so far since I mixed it in January.

    RA-4 I can get liquid from Kodak in 10L dev and blix here in Canada or there is a Tetenal 5L kit that B&H will ship. Kodak has instructions on how to make 1L portions of the RA-4 dev and blix, not sure about Tetenal.
    Harry Pulley - Visit the BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE FORUM

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  4. #14
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    It may be that the instruction is wrong about splitting, and you should have mixed the whole liter at a time without measuring anything; or, it can be that the instruction and concentration is right and they put a wrong amount in the bottle.
    That is exactly the problem, thanks for phrasing so concisely.

    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    However, I have a "feeling" that the most general way for color chemicals is that the bottles have the actual, correct amount that, when mixed as instructed, will give right concentrations.
    I think so too. Apart from the stab-bath, the chemicals in the larger 5 litre packaging should be exactly the same as those in my 1 litre kit. People must be splitting this 5 litre kit all the time, and apparently (from a lack of posts on the different forums) the splitting works fine.

    I don't believe that Tetenal puts solvent in the bottles first and then adds the powdered active ingredients- I suppose this mixing happens in larger volumes at some earlier stage.

    Then the lesser content of part 2 must be a filling mistake in the factory. Machines are only human after all

    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    But again, can't know about Tetenal. Maybe you should ask them.
    I thought of this but I figured that Tetenal will never admit to a filling mistake. I wouldn't if I were them. (Perhaps I'm being a bit too negative here.)

    I could ask the people in the shop where I bought the kit (yes, a real brick & mortar shop!). I don't come there often and it's not very close (in relative terms), but if I do I will certainly ask. They are probably the only place in the country where you can still get these kits over the counter, and they should be quite knowledgeable on 'analogue issues'.

    I have a suspicion that the shop will put it down to a filling mistake too.

  5. #15
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hpulley View Post
    Here I can only get the powder Tetenal C-41 kit delivered to me.
    I have never seen this powder kit in Netherlands, Germany or UK.

    Manufacturers probably feel that Europeans are too clumsy to deal with all those intimidating powders.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandermarijn View Post
    Manufacturers probably feel that Europeans are too clumsy to deal with all those intimidating powders.
    I (clumsy European) strongly prefer liquids as they completely avoid the hassle with mixing and undissolved residues in the bath. Also, if the volume in the bottle of concentrate is as advertised, partial mixing is much easier with liquid concentrate than with powder.

    It may be simply shipping cost which causes dev manufacturers to sell powder instead of liquid concentrate overseas ...
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  7. #17
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    C-41 has some components which are difficult to ship here due to hazardous materials regulations. I don't know why it is safe in powder but not liquid necessarily...
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  8. #18
    hrst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandermarijn View Post
    I thought of this but I figured that Tetenal will never admit to a filling mistake. I wouldn't if I were them. (Perhaps I'm being a bit too negative here.)
    Oh, they did in my case---eventually! I even got a replacement package of RA-4 2,5 liter kit. Needless to say, the replacement package was also defective, just like the product is.

    First, they said no one has never had any problems, but in the end, they said they will reconsider the formulation to fix the problem. I got a feeling that they knew the problem or at least was suspecting it to begin with. Maybe they were lucky to have mostly non-complaining customers.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrst View Post
    Maybe they were lucky to have mostly non-complaining customers.
    This donkey chooses to be one of those customers. Making calls to Germany over 20 euros of chemicals that I'm unlikely to ever use again? Hm, not likely. (Also, my German is pretty crap.) I don't believe in emails, or letters.

    BTW, I do believe that Tetenal have a pretty good reputation for their chemicals, your and my case aside

  10. #20
    sandermarijn's Avatar
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    So I am happy with my results, the negatives scan fine that is. I would LOVE to buy RA4 paper & chemicals and start printing away. Problem is that I like doing b&w even more, and two 'workflows' is a bit too much for me, not in the least financially. Also, looking at what's available for RA4 (paper especially), I'm starting to have doubts about the process's future.

    When I started RA4 around 1998 there was so much paper around. I used Agfa, Kodak and Tetenal. I could be wrong, but it seems like they're all gone now.

    By saying this I don't mean to hurt RA4 even more or reiterate what doubtlessly many have said before. It's just my very own personal observation and reasoning. I hugely regret the difference in RA4-availability compared to no less than ten years ago.

    I see no point in investing in a 'hybrid workflow'. Then I may just as well use my digital camera. No offence to anyone- I do see how a hybrid workflow can be lots of fun to some.

    So that's exit colour film for me. Pity. Fortunately there's still slides!

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