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  1. #11

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    That has me confused. I thought bleach is a process that is to be done until it completes. So bleach time is not critical as long as it is long enough and it is completed. Can you use E-6 bleach in C-41 process longer until it bleaches completely?

    I have a bunch of C-41RA bleach replenisher. Its color looks almost black unlike brownish on standard C-41 bleach. I do not use starter. I just use it as a standard C-41 bleach. According to Kodak tech pub it takes only something like 2 minutes to bleach provided that the agitation is more aggressive. What will happen if I do it the standard time of 6 min 30 sec with regular agitation? Will it give me any problems? Suould I shorten the time to 2 - 3 minutes instead?

  2. #12
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    Yes, bleach goes to completion, but it forms Iron II salts. The pH and the amount of excess EDTA or NTA is critical to prevent dye hue problems and to prevent Iron II stain from forming in the coating. So, the E6 bleach is designed to follow (more or less) a pH 11 developer, while the C41 bleach is designed to follow a pH 10 developer. After these, a pretty routine near neutral fix is used, adjusted for the pH differences of the two processes.

    The E6 bleach is also designed to work with a pre-bleach.

    Along with this is the need to bleach high iodide emulsions with total silver developed in E6 and only about 50% of the silver developed in C41 but with DIR couplers creating interfering chemistry.

    It can be done, but in the case of E6 films, you may see a higher dmin, generally tending to be yellowish, and in C41 films and E6 films you will tend to see desaturated colors, higher grain and lower sharpness. That is, if you don't take the bleach to completion. So, you have to test to find out what is completion, and when you reach it, you have to determine if you have harmed the final negative or slide. Once you find the correct conditions, you can probably then process safely. That is, aside from any dye stability issues that might arise.

    Since the change to Bleach III, IDK what that would mean for E6 films, nor do I know what to recommend for C41 films in E6 bleach. I suspect there will be few problems, but I don't just want to say OK go ahead! That would be irresponsible of me. I have to show you both sides of the issue.

    PE
    Last edited by Photo Engineer; 04-22-2011 at 07:30 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: changed developer to bleach in last paragraph

  3. #13
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    Ron,
    as always thanks so much for your experience and willingness to share it.

  4. #14

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    This is exactly my thread. I was able to pick up new cubes of E-6 chemistry for a song when my local lab went out of business. Now I have more than a cube of E-6 and some C-41 developer but no C-41 bleach. I'll be interested in seeing what this thread has to offer, but I have a new set of Rollei chemistry from FreeStyle, so until that is used, I'm not sure I'm worrying about the rest. Hey, now that I think about it, I can recycle the bleach from the Rollei kit... duh! Still interested in this thread though.

  5. #15

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    Will do!

    Andy

  6. #16
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    Agfa AP-70 Bleach works a treat on all colour films I've found, just don't use E-6 pre-bleach with C-41 bleaches, or you'll need to re-bleach with fresh bleach as it won't do it's job properly (at least when using Flexicolor Bleach). And also you'll want to stop after colour developer, rinse then bleach when using C-41 bleach too (with an E-6 process). You'll need to use Stabiliser III at the end for E-6 films, or use the pre-bleach in there somewhere for the dye stabiliser.

  7. #17

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    Just the thread im looking for. I am trying to use E6 films in xtol 1+1 at 38 degree. >Rinse and fog under light and then do the rest in c41. But it seems that the new Kodak Bleach for Flexicolor isnt strong enough. I Have the 5 liter you dont have to dilute. I was wondering, could i use bleach ror RA4 or maybe a strong farmers reduser solution?

  8. #18
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    RA4 bleach fix is even weaker than the other two! Don't use it for films of any sort.

    You can use Farmer's reducer, but you must use a clearing bath between the color developer and bleach. I have explained that elsewhere here.

    PE

  9. #19

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    Check out the Fuji Hunt Europe website. They have documentation for E-6 and C-41, and I remember seeing something there about customers who were using a common bleach bath for c41 and E6, and what you need to do to make this work.

  10. #20
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    There are dozens of posts here on APUG for those willing to search them out.

    PE

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