C-41 bleach E-6 bleach

[Andy Durazo]

I've got a little problem here. I work at a school and we have no more money in our budget. I've just run out of C-41 bleach but, I've got a lot of E-6 bleach. In a pinch can I use E-6 bleach for my C-41 films?

Thanx for your help,

Andy

[brucemuir]

Nope.
No cigar.
I'll let someone else explain the reason because my chemistry is limited.

[Photo Engineer]

The E6 bleach is more powerful than the C41 bleach because it must deal with more silver. That is a very simplified answer. However, with care, you can use the E6 bleach for C41. You must run tests first to make sure that the bleach does its job though or you can get higher grain, less sharpness and degraded colors. What you need to do is figure out the best bleach time!

Then, you use the process, Develop, stop, rinse, bleach, wash, fix, wash, final rinse. Use C41 times for all but the E6 bleach.

PE

[brucemuir]

Interesting Ron, I thought they were fundamentally different.

I need to learn to not offer any advice when it comes to chemistry.

[Andy Durazo]

The E6 bleach is more powerful than the C41 bleach because it must deal with more silver. That is a very simplified answer. However, with care, you can use the E6 bleach for C41. You must run tests first to make sure that the bleach does its job though or you can get higher grain, less sharpness and degraded colors. What you need to do is figure out the best bleach time!

Then, you use the process, Develop, stop, rinse, bleach, wash, fix, wash, final rinse. Use C41 times for all but the E6 bleach.

PE

Since I'm using a film processing machine with the times preprogrammed in; can I just dilute the E-6 bleach so I wouldn't have to change the time. If so, what dilution from standard E-6 do you recommend?
Thanx

Andy

[Photo Engineer]

Since I'm using a film processing machine with the times preprogrammed in; can I just dilute the E-6 bleach so I wouldn't have to change the time. If so, what dilution from standard E-6 do you recommend?
Thanx

Andy

I have no clue. It can be done by trial and error to get the time, but I have never worked out a dilution table. Sorry.

PE

[Photo Engineer]

Interesting Ron, I thought they were fundamentally different.

I need to learn to not offer any advice when it comes to chemistry.

Bruce;

They are quite a bit different. Both were based on EDTA and Iron III, but they diverged and C41 is made from raw ingredients (Ferric Oxide, EDTA and Ammonia) whereas the other is made from Ferric Nitrate and EDTA. Recently, the C41 bleach converted to an NTA Iron III bleach to reduce pollution. This is the Bleach III green bleach solution.

E6 beach has to fight a silver load while C41 bleach has to fight a DIR load. These differ subtly and the bleaches have to be fine tuned to match the products. Basically, the E6 bleaches have never been updated due to market demand, but C41 has been refined several times giving us the 3rd generation.

PE

[Andy Durazo]

Thanx for the info. I guess I'll experiment.

[Andy Durazo]

I do remember that the old C-41 Bleach II was the same rosé wine colour as the E-6 bleach so that's what got me thinking. Good to know about the chemical makeups as you told us.
Thanx again the help is much appreciated.
Andy

[anikin]

Andy,

Could you please keep the thread updated with the results of your experiment. With discontinuation of E-6 kit, those of us doing both C41 and E6 are forced to buy rather expensive bleaches for both. Being able to use just one bleach would make things not quite as expensive.

Eugene.