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  1. #31
    lee
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    Yeah Tim I agree. All of the commercial shooters used to have the chromes processed at a lab and then they would even have the lab deliver the prints or the transparencies to their studio. This is nothing new.

    lee\c

  2. #32
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    Personally I could not feel comfortable selling anything as "my work" unless it was handled by me from start to finish. Not given to a lab for prints, or given to a machine for output. As ludicris as some mind find that, it's just me..

  3. #33

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    I agree with you Sean but my color blindness prevents me from printing color. SO for color I have to go out for printing. It is a bummer but a fact of life for some of us. BW sure gets boring for me after a while. Color is a struggle at times but I find it worth it. I am stil looking for a wet darkroom that still does cibas, that I would not have sell the family into servitude to afford a print that cost 12.00US a few years ago.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  4. #34

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    But as I said - pick any one of the best/most well known colour workers today (especailly those whose work sells int he thousands) and there's probably a 75% chance their printer pritned the image - Meyerowitz, Sternfeld, Misrach, Gursky, Struth, Cohen, James, Eggleston whatever "flavour" of work you like, it's probably the case.

    Many (though not all) sculpturs don't/didn't cast their own bronzes either - a foundry does it.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim atherton
    But as I said - pick any one of the best/most well known colour workers today (especailly those whose work sells int he thousands) and there's probably a 75% chance their printer pritned the image - Meyerowitz, Sternfeld, Misrach, Gursky, Struth, Cohen, James, Eggleston whatever "flavour" of work you like, it's probably the case.

    Many (though not all) sculpturs don't/didn't cast their own bronzes either - a foundry does it.

    Tim,

    I fully agree, but I would place the figure much higher, i.e., that all of the great color artists had their work printed by someone else about 98% of the time. The technical demands of color printing have always been such that printing one's own work is not compatible with image making, certainly not when one is a working professional and trying to earn a living. The time needed to master the skill requirements simply leave little or no time for the creative process of image making. There are a few exceptions that come to mind, Elliot Porter for example, but such cases are very rare.

    Let's not forget that in painting many, perhaps most, of the great masters had their assistants do much of the work, and this practice goes on even today. I know for a fact that several very well known contemporary artists (painters) working in New York have assistants who do between 85-95% of the actual painting of their works.

    I strongly support analog photography but in the case of color work the mantra of the anti-digital folks really flies in the face of reality. It is, quite simply, a bridge that goes too far, at last in my humble opinion.

    Sandy

  6. #36
    Murray@uptowngallery's Avatar
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    I too am finding the cliches annoying.

    A gallery/lab I was just at answered this same question for me as C-print = chromogenic. This begs the question...what does "chromogenic" mean? Does this mean nothing more than "it's a color photo", but how unhip is that terminology anymore?

    I have been talking to someone at work about b/w photography and they keep asking me if someone's work is silver gelatin, in a tone of voice that I expect to be followed by genuflection.

    I have read some discussion if this before, and asked Kodak to confirm my suspicion, and have my own opinion, that if the image you are viewing is b/w, and it isn't Pd/Pt, kallitype, etc, digital or Xerography, then, gosh it must be silver gelatin...even RC is silver gelatin underneath.

    We used to say RC or fiber in school, but fiber has other connotations.

    Kodak confirmed that all their (current) non-digital non-inkjet photo papers are indeed silver gelatin, whether fiber, RC, AZO or whatever.

    Is this more significant than I am seeing?
    Murray

  7. #37
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim atherton
    Meyerowitz
    I haven't seen much of Joel Meyerowitz's work, but if his book on Tuscany is any example, I would say it is c**p. Bland colors, blown highlights, questionable composition.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  8. #38
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    The time needed to master the skill requirements simply leave little or no time for the creative process of image making. There are a few exceptions that come to mind, Elliot Porter for example, but such cases are very rare.
    I used to do color printing (Cibachrome) and I find you are right; I would rather spend my time photographing and researching for my various projects. I have West Coast Imaging do all my printing work.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  9. #39
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    I would agree that most photographers, especially those working in colour have their film processed and prints made by others.

    I do know very few photographers who at some point did not learn how to competently manage if not master the printing process. It is not a process that is all that difficult to do competently and is something that most photographers should know very well if they are to fully realize their creative ambitions.

    My attempts at producing art are strongly supported by my printmaking. I could not delegate printing at this point in my career. I can imagine myself, in the future, brow beating some poor printer with my colour/dodging/burning requirements, but then I will have some knowledge of what is I require and the experience to know if it is feasible.

    My opinion is, of course, just that. It is based upon my anecdotal experiences and is humbly offered.

    *

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    Tim,

    I fully agree, but I would place the figure much higher, i.e., that all of the great color artists had their work printed by someone else about 98% of the time. The technical demands of color printing have always been such that printing one's own work is not compatible with image making, certainly not when one is a working professional and trying to earn a living. Sandy
    Sandy
    I find this statement from you to be , well.....rather hypocritical. With all of the work you do testing film, and fiddling in front of a computer getting a computer neg just right for your alt printing, it seems that you definately put forth the effort for a BW print. Does the technicalities and learning curve of BW hinder the image making? Or does it all work to create the final vision? Could it possibly be the same for the color photographer?
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004



 

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