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  1. #21

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    Sure with extras I use only on shot developer based on C41.

    Maybe I should alter the ph with washing soda.

    I have over 500 Rolls of Kodak 400 (Version 3) in the freezer, enough material to try.

    There are only a few people around who still know in detail about color development. And most of them dont like to share their secrets...

    Good and realistic results I can get with any digital camera. But that is not what I want from film. The standard C41 process was made for machines. I believe there are much more possibilities hidden in color film.

  2. #22
    Athiril's Avatar
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    You can alter the pH but your colour will end up shifted and mismatched iirc, you can do somewhat more digitally to correct that as you can access each red, green and blue portion of the image individually and have the utmost control over it. But it simply isn't ideal, at least for balanced normal colour.

    IF you want whacky results and weird colour, surrealism etc, and don't mind wrecking rolls and developer repeatedly playing around to try and get it, then go for it.. as I said earlier EIR may have been an ideal film for you specifically for it's amazing surreal quality. - http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Ekta...EIR&ss=2&s=int


    Whenever I fiddled with stuff I had 100ft of some cheap film to test with (I had Supra 400) so that I could examine differences, and not waste my main shooting film, save a lot of $, etc.

  3. #23

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    I dont know this EIR. Thanks. Very nice results!

    But I have only these 400 ASA color negative films.
    I bought them for only 20 Cents. In regular C41 the came out great.

    Maybe the is a way to go with normal negative film, to get colors in this EIR direction?

    I only scan the negatives, so there is the possibility to adjust the colors slightly by software,
    if necessary. But I dont like digital manipulation much.

    Any more "Add ons" that have an strong effect on the developing?

    So far I know

    H202
    Alcohol
    Washing Soda
    Rodinal

    Anybody who knows some Photographers that use some alternative color process?
    Last edited by Color Photographer; 09-03-2011 at 09:30 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #24
    Athiril's Avatar
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    You cant get EIR colours on normal film because it's completely different EIR is false colour infrared film, regular colour films are normal visible spectrum films.

  5. #25
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    There are no real secrets to color development. There are just a few knobs to turn. Here they are:

    pH, Agitation, temperature, time - and thats about it. So, low temperature with high agitation will give you high yellow dye contrast and low cyan dye contrast. A slight change in the cyan can be had by then using a water bath after development. There is one "secret" that can be used to abuse color films.

    Be advised that each film will respond differently. This is due to differences in thickness, silver content and the coupler compositions.

    PE

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    There is one "secret" that can be used to abuse color films.

    PE
    Thanks PE

    This Information is very helpful for me

    And what is this "secret" to abuse the film ??? Please let me know...

    If I wash the film after the development and before the bleach, the water gets red/orange. Why?

    And a second question please, what goes wrong in the negative development so some images have a red/magenta cast (the prints) ?
    Can a weak cyan dye be the reason? What can I do? Higher temperatures and reduced agitation? During my experiments I see that adding some washing soda to the developer seems to reduce this redish/magenta cast. But I cannot explain why.

    Mostly I use only Kodak Negative Film and buy them in greater batches to have reproducible results.
    I store them frozen at -18C
    Last edited by Color Photographer; 09-03-2011 at 11:51 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #27
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    The one secret is to use one or more of the variables that I gave you. That is it!

    The film is pink due to dyes washing out of the film. These are trimmer and acutance dyes used to adjust speed and contrast.

    IDK what your workflow or chemistry is so I cannot possibly answer this question.

    And: That was three questions.

    PE

  8. #28

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    Ah I understand

    Now I have all I need to do more experiments
    Thousands of possible combinations


    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post

    The film is pink due to dyes washing out of the film. These are trimmer and acutance dyes used to adjust speed and contrast.

    And: That was three questions.

    PE
    And the washing out of these dyes should be done in regular process, without negative effect?
    In Kodaks C41 the Bleach follows directly to the developement.

    This was the 4th and last question (today)

    Thank you very much. Why we should be limited to BW and Digital only.
    There are so much great cameras and color material around.

    (Maybe I find a way get Kodachrome like Colors. It was a great mistake, never to use this film.)
    Last edited by Color Photographer; 09-03-2011 at 12:12 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #29
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    The dyes that I mentioned above are designed to wash out in the color process. The bleach follows development unless you get streaking. In that case, Kodak suggests the use of a 1 - 2% Acetic Acid stop after the color developer.

    PE

  10. #30
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    EIR colour is mapping infrared to the red portion of the image, red to the green portion of the image, and green to the blue portion of the image, blue light is filtered out and not used.

    If you dont mind shooting on a tripod and taking 3 separate exposure, you could recombine this into something similar, you would need regular B&W pan film and infrared B&W film. 1 IR exposure with an IR filter on the IR film, one red exposure with a red filter on the B&W pan film, and one green exposure with a green filter on the B&W pan film (well either film really). If you can't change films easily between shots, then all on the IR film might be okay, dunno how close the red filter will come out to the IR filter though.

    You would have to combine those later by scanning and digitally putting them into red (ir), green (red), and blue (green) channels respectively. You could also try printing them onto RA-4 back through colour filters filters added perhaps onto another filter made of unexposed and process C-41 film (or just fixed C-41 film), it would be a real PITA.




    Washing after C-41 Developer
    I also recommend a stop after developer if you intend to wash before the bleach. A straight up wash/rinse alters the negative quality depending on your water. At one place I lived it didn't seem to do anything, so I never noticed and got into the habit of just washing after developer. Another place I lived after that, all my negs came out fogged, I remixed every bath about 3 times from scratch before deciding to try a stop randomly to inspect the negs physically before bleaching, after I finished processing those, they came out very nice. So now I stop or I bleach.

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